(posting in my volunteer capacity)
Echoing Andrew's, SJ's, and Ziko's comments, I will add that perhaps all it
would take is some collective energy to endorse these long-standing
observations, and signal to WMF that we no longer have to pretend Wikinews
is a worthwhile model (as SJ, Paulo, and Andrew spell out, *to the extent*
we can do news (which is far from 100%, being mostly news-synthesis and
contextualizing), we do a far better job through and in Wikipedia). I
think no action has been taken because it is neither an urgent problem, nor
an important one to most contributors, so if WMF were to "sunset" Wikinews,
it would upset the few die-hard Wikinewsies[1], and please almost no-one.
If a significant number of people were to see the *opportunity cost* we pay
due to this confusion and branding issue (ably described by SJ in his
anecdote about the fact-checker event), and express their concern (e.g. via
an RFC), perhaps there would be found more appetite to provide the formal
nod to shutter (not delete) Wikinews, and avoid misleading new volunteers
and outsiders into believing Wikinews can work.
I have tried to contribute toward this goal with a session at the Wikimedia
Conference 2013 (in Milan)[2] focused on *the cost* of keeping up the
appearance of Wikinews (and Wikiversity, and Wikipedias in languages with
~2000 speakers) as worthwhile endeavors. While there were some who agreed,
I mostly managed to upset some people, and there was no appetite at WMF (at
the time) to take up that cause.
So we are probably doomed to have these conversations periodically (indeed,
that itself is one of the costs I listed), until such time as some critical
mass is reached and enough people want to be rid of this historical
baggage. I would like to see us do so, but as a staff member, I think it
is not for me to start an RFC.
A.
[1] Some years ago a Wikinewsie user group was created. It failed to
sustain enough interest to meet the single user group duty of submitting an
annual activity report, and exist beyond its inaugural year.
[2]
seems to be the best (though not very good) documentation of that session.
Oh wait, there's also this, uh, Prezi:
On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 2:04 AM Andrew Lih <andrew.lih(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:23 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers
<
jennifer.pryorsummers(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Andrew
It seems to me that you're saying that, on the one hand, the policies
that
make Wikipedia work well as an encyclopaedia
(NOR, RS, V, NORUSH) are a
poor fit for a news-gathering operation and on the other hand, Wikipedia
is
a success as a news-gathering operation. These
seem inconsistent to me.
As Wikimedians we are secondary source news summarizers rather than primary
source news gatherers. That’s where the difference lies primarily.
I have been a fan of the times Wikinews did original interviews with
notable folks [1] so this is perhaps a sustainable niche. But as a direct
news wire competitor to AP, Reuters or AFP, no.
[1]
https://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_discusses_the_future_of_Israel
However, I conclude from what you're saying
that the best way forward is
to
fold the Wikinews operation into Wikipedia. Is
that right?
Fold Wikinews altogether so it doesn’t confuse the public. Wikipedia
editors are already doing a stellar job.
Andrew
On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 8:15 PM Andrew Lih
<andrew.lih(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 2:27 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
> jennifer.pryorsummers(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Wikinews may not be doing too well, but (English-language) Wikipedia
> seems
> > to have taken up a news-gathering role not entirely consistent with
its
> > encyclopediac mission: perhaps
that's the reason. Maybe the WMF
should
> > sort out the demarcation issues.
> >
>
> Jennifer,
>
> This has been a topic of discussion for more than a decade and the vast
> majority of the community has converged on the conclusion that Wikinews
> hasn't and won't ever work at any scale given its fundamental
properties.
News is often described as "the best obtainable version of the truth
given
the constraints of a deadline." News depends
on memorializing direct
observation at a point in time. Therefore, the following policies that
make
Wikipedia work are a bad fit for original,
deadline reporting:
Wikipedia:NOR - no original research
Wikipedia:RS - requirement for reliable sources
Wikipedia:V - verifiability
Wikipedia:NORUSH - there is no deadline/eventualism
Most anyone who tries Wikinews first hand will experience this mismatch
and
realize it is a poor fit.
However, rather than lament why Wikinews doesn't work, we should
celebrate
> the fact that we have found a better mode: entries that evolve minute
to
> minute (oftentimes second to second) to best
reflect the world as we
know
> it. Embrace that new, live, constantly
updated snapshot of reality –
the
Wikipedia
article.
If you want to see some of the earlier debates about the origins of
Wikinews, October 2004 is a good place to look:
[1]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-October/thread.html
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-October/061017.html
-Andrew
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-Andrew Lih
Author of The Wikipedia Revolution
US National Archives Citizen Archivist of the Year (2016)
Knight Foundation grant recipient - Wikipedia Space (2015)
Wikimedia DC - Outreach and GLAM
Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American
University, Columbia University, USC
---
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