Unfortunately I think all these points are valid. These behavious do not improve
communication for many of us. There seems to be a choice between freedom of expression and
effective communication in a multicultural group. There is theoretically the option of
asking for clarification, but it is often ignored. Sometimes bluntly refused, and
sometimes claimed not to be necessary.
Cheers,
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Eduardo
Testart
Sent: 12 September 2020 22:45
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice
Hi All,
I just wanted to give my opinion on how to make things more civil and
gentle in general, and also to add clarity to the threads. As a non-English
native speaker, there are many things I consider do not help at all in
written discussions in general in any given list, most of the time when
these things are done, then everything turns challenging, complicated, or
sadly blatantly uncivil:
1) Irony
2) Jokes
3) Long and numerous paragraphs (extensive writing)
4) Acronyms
I believe these things are very important to pay attention too and should
be avoided, no matter what we are feeling or thinking about any specific
subject. Not doing so regularly leads to conflictive states, and paying
attention to the latter and restraining from doing so normally contributes
to open discussions.
I believe also that helps a lot to reduce:
5) Sayings and expressions
Maybe all this resonates with someone, and if not, it's also ok :]
Cheers!
On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 1:00 PM Asaf Bartov <asaf.bartov(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 6:50 PM Dan Szymborski
<dszymborski(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
As long as people are going to continue to talk
about me and imply that
I'm
actually *harassing* people, then I feel I have a
right to defend myself.
Nobody ever denied you that right.
I brought up that the UCoC standard is a reasonable person standard, not a
"most offended person" standard and
this was never addressed. Instead, I
was demeaned by being placed on a special moderation protocol. Asaf
Bartov
threatened me that if I continued to defend
myself -- even as people
continued to discuss me -- that *I'm* hijacking the thread.
What I actually wrote to you, and I quote, was:
"I also must insist that you not hijack this thread, which is for
discussing the draft UCoC. If you see value in bringing up your concerns
on those other matters on this list, please do so on separate threads.
Since you have expressed the opinion that this UCoC draft is illegitimate,
I suggest there is really no reason for you to post further on this thread,
leaving it for those who *would* like to discuss it."
I then did indeed threaten that *if you continue to disrupt the UCoC
thread*, your messages won't be let through. As you can see, your latest
letter, since it was no longer disrupting the UCoC thread, *was* let
through.
I asked Asaf if Koerner was given a similar warning for a very long, smug,
patronizing screed about me as on-topic. Bartov
reiterated that nobody
else
was given any warning about off-topic
communication. Only *I* am not
allowed to talk about *my* apparent offense.
Since now you quote a question you asked privately, I will quote the answer
I gave you:
====================
"No, I did not warn Ms. Koerner about thread hijacking, because the very
problem with thread hijacking is that once the change of topic is made,
people legitimately want to respond. I have not observed Ms. Koerner
*initiating* a thread hijack.
I do encourage you to continue contributing on the list, including in
criticizing whatever flaws you find in the Foundation's actions. I
certainly find such flaws myself.
But again, as a professional, perhaps you can be less ornery and more
measured in expressing the *substance* of your concerns. It would at the
very least be no less effective, and perhaps more so."
====================
A.
--
Asaf Bartov <asaf.bartov(a)gmail.com>
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