It was known that Mark was going on holiday which is one of the
reasons we wanted a deputy at this early stage. I totally understand
your concerns about multiple agendas here, which is why I'm sticking
around quite heavily to help everyone.
Our aim is not to make #wikipedia a help-only channel, and the idea is
to definately keep -en-help as it is. I think though -en-help is very
much a channel for new users, and #wikipedia can be for more complex
stuff. However, I'm not saying new users shouldn't be welcomed and
helped in #wikipedia because the other thing is the help bots report
to -en-help, which is one of the main reasons it exists.
Also, #wikipedia-social is for situations where you say to yourself
"hmm, what did other people think of that film I just watched?" rather
than "hmm, I wonder if someguy has been busy lately, his e-mails are
being replied to slowly" which would be fine in #wikipedia, if you see
what I mean.
It's important to remember that the guidelines are not called rules
because things like this are so hard to define. We're allowing some
flexibility in this area with their enforcement.
Sean
On 17/06/07, Gurch <matthew.britton(a)btinternet.com> wrote:
Tangotango wrote:
Because it hasn't been mentioned by anybody
yet, I wanted to point
out that #wikipedia-en-help (formerly #wikipedia-bootcamp) is the
perfect channel for new Wikipedians who need help (hence the name).
While this channel does, for some reason, seem to be forgotten by the
mainstream Wikipedia IRC community (which may or may not be a bad
thing), it is extremely well-advertised on the Help desk, on the New
Contributors' Help Page, and on {{helpme}} messages. It is also
served by Bjelleklang's Java IRC client on the toolserver (again very
well-advertised in the pages quoted above).
Users in the channel are on the most part very friendly towards
newbies, and even basic questions are bound to get responses from one
or more helpers within seconds.
While I do not exactly condone the idea of compartmentalizing IRC
channels for particular purposes (especially with channels that have
seemingly similar topics, like #wikipedia, #wikipedia-social, and
#wikimedia-social), #wikipedia-en-help *is* a safe haven for newbies
where they can get help without getting ignored (or even worse, being
told that they are in The Wrong Channel) by the masses of seasoned
yet not-newbie-oriented Wikipedians.
So if you do find a newbie in need of help, or if there are any
opportunities where you recommend a channel for a newbie in need of
help, please don't forget #wikipedia-en-help.
Cheers,
Tangotango
I referred to that channel (in fact both names, I had forgotten they
were the same thing) in discussion with Mark earlier, and I think I
mentioned it in passing here. It would appear that Sean and Mark wish
for #wikipedia to replace those channels (how they intend to do that, I
am not entirely sure).
I must reiterate that in the past, newcomers in #wikipedia *have*
generally recieved useful help quickly, and the only times they are
usually referred to another channel is if they specifically request it,
don't seem to have too good a grasp of English (in which case one of the
language-edition-specific channels is likely to be of more use), or want
to discuss a project other than Wikipedia.
It is *very rare* to see a new user with an honest question ignored in
#wikipedia. (If anything, some people are too helpful, and try to act
helpfully toward obvious trolls, which isn't particularly useful).
That's not to say I don't agree with the need for a dedicated help
channel, because I do. #wikipedia-en-help seems to be used by the same
people who answer helpdesk requests, and I'm sure they are every bit as
good - and probably better - at answering questions as the rest of us.
What they think of the new ops' intention to make #wikipedia into the
"help channel", I'm not sure.
I should also reiterate that #wikipedia-social is a completely new
channel that Mark and Sean have just created, with the intention of
removing off-topic conversation from #wikipedia altogether. So I
wouldn't agree tha thte two channels have "seemingly similar topics".
Mark now tells me he's gone on holiday and left Dmcdevit in charge, and
that he no longer has any control over anything. Much as I respect
Dmcdevit, I fear this may lead to yet another interpretion of the new
rules, and only add to the confusion.
- Gurch
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