Thank you Yaroslav, I would very much appreciate a link to the discussion.
By not having a Youtube 2.0 we are avoiding a Wikipedia 2.0 with pure
encyclopaedic videos. I see a false dilemma there.
El mar, 23 ene 2024 a las 16:03, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga (<
galder158(a)hotmail.com>) escribió:
Thanks to everyone for your comments.
We don't need to worry about Commons being "Youtube 2.0", because we
can't
embed Commons video outside. Furthermore, we can't even embed Commons
images or videos in Diff, because oEmbed is not working for Commons and
Wordpress can't take directly images or videos from Commons. This has been
known since... 2010!
-
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T27854
-
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T309101
Again, the problem is not about this code or that specific piece of code.
The problem is lack of direction, ambition and goals.
Cheers,
Galder
------------------------------
*From:* James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com>
*Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2024 10:49 PM
*To:* Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
*Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: We need more interactive content: we are
doing it wrong
Yes we see this sentiment regarding a number of issues in our movement.
The existing community wants to keep certain processes more difficult /
time consuming to make sure that those involved in the process are
sufficiently "dedicated".
Maybe we just need a flag which can be given to allow certain folks we
trust to use an easier process or only allow video upload by people with so
many edits which can be removed if they misuse it?
James
On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 2:38 PM Yaroslav Blanter <ymbalt(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Specifically related to video uploads, we had discussions on Commons on
different strategic issues recently, in particular, about this. The general
sentiment was, to my understanding (pls correct me if I am wrong) that
Commons has no ambition to become Youtube 2.0 and we do not have any
resources for this. If video upload is encouraged, very strict policies
must be in force concerning of what is in the scope of Commons.
Best
Yaroslav
On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 10:05 PM Brion Vibber <bvibber(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Converting them to suitably compact files in h.264/aac in .MP4 format
would be by far the simplest way. Use ffmpeg as we do on the server side
for online playback.
Conforming to the arbitrary Wikimedia prohibition on h.264 you could use
mpeg-4 visual instead, still in .mp4 - afaik patents are expired and it'll
play in standalone files (not in HLS)
If you jump through enough hoops you might get vp9 working in HLS offline,
but adaptive streaming may be irrelevant to offline use.
-- brion
On Tue, Jan 23, 2024, 12:52 PM James Heilman <jmh649(a)gmail.com> wrote:
It would be amazing if one could play videos on iPhones when the videos
are within ZIMs in an offline environment aswell. Brion not sure what
barriers there are to this currently?
James
On Tue, Jan 23, 2024 at 12:48 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
paulosperneta(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Should read 2030 Strategy, not 2023 strategy, sorry.
Paulo Santos Perneta <paulosperneta(a)gmail.com> escreveu (terça,
23/01/2024 à(s) 19:41):
I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. We are currently grappling
with rather rudimentary approaches when it comes to uploading and reusing
video and music files...
The incredibly useful Graph has been down for quite some time. The
extensive capabilities of Wikidata query representations, particularly with
geolocated data on maps, appear to have barely scratched the surface.
Listeria frequently experiences issues and underwent a major update that
disrupted previous queries.
On a personal note, I attempted to create a dynamic digital library of
works under a free license using Wikidata for our Digital Humanistics
centre. However, I discovered that with the available tools, I would need
to code the presentation myself, as the options for reuse outside of
Wikidata were very basic.
On the whole, the Wikipedia experience remains challenging, especially for
newcomers. The much wanted Visual Editor developments and improvements seem
to have stopped years ago. The recent changes made by the 'Desktop
Improvement' team to the default Wikipedia skin seem to be more geared
towards readers than editors and have apparently worsened the overall
experience, according to feedback I've received from newcomers.
These are just a few instances that have underscored, and continue to
underscore, my belief that we are likely not on the path towards achieving
the objectives outlined in the 2023 Strategy.
My personal impression is that the issue doesn't necessarily stem from a
lack of funding to pursue these objectives but rather from the ineffective
expenditure and allocation of those funds. I wish I knew how to contribute
to changing or improving this situation.
It would also be great to see a comment/opinion from current CEO Maryana
Iskander on this state of affairs, and if there is some roadmap for
improving it.
Best,
Paulo
Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <galder158(a)hotmail.com> escreveu (terça,
23/01/2024 à(s) 11:03):
Dear wikimedians,
Nearly one year ago, the Graphs extension was disabled from all wikis,
because there was a security issue that should be solved (
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T334940). A wide team from the WMF
worked on a solution for some weeks, but after Northern Hemisphere spring
ended, summer came, then the monsoon season, and now it is again summer in
the Southern Hemisphere... and Graphs are still disabled. All the solutions
proposed have been dismissed, but every two months there's a proposal to
make a new roadmap to solve the issue. We have plenty of roadmaps, but no
vehicle to reach our destination.
Seven years ago, we were discussing our Strategy for 2030. We used
thousands of volunteer hours, thousands of staff hours and millions of
dollars to build a really well-balanced strategy. There we concluded that "*By
2030, Wikimedia will become the essential infrastructure of the ecosystem
of free knowledge*". We also made some recommendations to improve the
User Experience (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Strategy/Recommendations/Improve_U…)
and claimed that we wanted to Innovate in Free Knowledge (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Strategy/Recommendations/Innovate_…).
Well, the situation is now worse than it was seven years ago, let me give
some examples:
- Graph extension is used in thousands of pages, some of them highly
relevant, as COVID or Climate Change information. There are thousands of
graphs broken now, and the only partial solution give is loading these
graphs as images, instead of promoting an interactive solution.
- Meanwhile, a place like Our World in Data has been publishing data
and interactive content with a compatible license for years. (Remember, "*By
2030, Wikimedia will become the essential infrastructure of the ecosystem
of free knowledge*"). Trying to add this data and graphs to Wikimedia
projects has been done by WikiMed, and it is technically possible, but
still blocked to deploy (
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T303853).
- Wolfram Alpha is like a light year ahead us on giving interactive
solutions to knowledge questions, even the silliest ones (
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=how+many+oranges+fit+in+the+Earth%3F).
We have good technical articles about a lot of things, but sometimes "*becoming
the essential infrastructure of the ecosystem of free knowledge*"
needs to provide solutions to exact problems, like the answer to an
equation, and how to solve it. That's also "free knowledge".
- Brilliant (
https://brilliant.org/) is brilliant if you want to learn
lots of things, like geometry or programming. Way better than Wikipedia.
But... you need to pay for it. How could we even try if we can't add
anything interactive to our platforms?
- We can build interactive timelines using Wikidata, but we can't
embed them at Wikipedia. Weird, because I can do it in any external page.
Hopefully, Histropedia will do it better.
http://histropedia.com/
<http://histropedia.com/>
- We could have something very special: inline links in video and
audio subtitles. We used to have them, but the new video infrastructure
doesn't allow it. Imagine a world where you can watch a video and link a
link in the subtitles just to know more about that.
- ...
The list can go on an on ("which phase the moon is today?"), but I think
that the idea is clear. We could have interactive content, but we are going
in the opposite direction, and every year we are further from our goal,
because other platforms are doing it better, way better. And this seems
like some wild ideas, but then I read the 2023-2024 annual plan section
called "Wiki Experiences" (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2023-2024/…)
and it looks like we should be going there. But we aren't.
I'm sorry if this e-mail feels bitter. My experience in the last years is
that we are now further of what we need that we were before, even if many
chapters and volunteers are trying to overturn it.
Thank to everyone who have been trying.
Galder
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