There is no major obstacle other than money and contributors to creating a simple version encyclopaedia in any other language in a non WMF environment.
If Vikikids can find a way to find contributors and money to continue, then so can other non-WMF wikis. In fact, Miraheze provides an ad-free environment to do so; Wikia/Fandom also provides an ad-filled, for-profit platform, but has the advantage of being better known. Personally, I’d prefer Miraheze for nearly any wiki, including a simple non-English wiki that has a similar spirit to Simple English. I find Fandom ads distracting.
We don’t have to depend on the WMF to create a wiki. In fact, some might say we shouldn’t, but frankly, that warrants another thread to discuss.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Jun 24, 2022, at 1:15 AM, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
Yes, I find it more difficult to write for Simple English, because it (Simple English) is not my first language and I do not think in it, and the words I would normally use for the topics I prefer are not invented there and have to be worked around, so it is translation a lot of the time. There is no major obstacle other than money and contributors to creating a simple version encyclopaedia in any other language in a non WMF environment. Cheers, Peter <> From: Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga [mailto:galder158@hotmail.com mailto:galder158@hotmail.com] Sent: 24 June 2022 09:59 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
Just a reminder that Simple English Wikipedia exists, but there are no Simple _________ Wikipedia versions and there won't be. So that may be a solution for English (it is not, as writing in Simple Wikipedia is way more complex than doing at the regular one, because you must change the language) but not for the other languages. There's where especial places for children may work.
Have a good day, Galder From: Neurodivergent Netizen <idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com mailto:idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 6:13 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
I don't disagree with trying to make language more understandable in general, though.
Right, but like I’m saying, we have the Simple Wikipedia already.
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Jun 23, 2022, at 8:57 PM, Clover Moss <clovermosswikipedia@gmail.com mailto:clovermosswikipedia@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't disagree with trying to make language more understandable in general, though. If there was a children's version, it might be useful for things like math articles. I remember looking up stuff like the quadratic formula when I was in high school, seeing way more advanced mathematics than I was used to and just giving up that Wikipedia could be a useful resource for that. Obviously Wikipedia isn't the end-all be-all for everything and it shouldn't be (obviously it wasn't meant to help me with homework either), but I do agree with the general principle expressed that WereSpielChequers that Wikipedia should be written for a general audience and that's what considered inappropriate is variable depending on your life circumstances.
On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 9:57 AM WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers@gmail.com mailto:werespielchequers@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm curious as to what level of reading skill you are writing this for and also what level of understanding/adulthood.
I see these as two different issues and both are likely to vary sharply especially between different countries with very different education systems.
A childrens' encyclopaedia written for nine year olds would surely be very different than one written for thirteen year olds. And content that parents of fourteen year olds thought was age inappropriate in Alabama might be thought appropriate or even bowdlerised by parents of ten year olds in London.
In other words, are you sure that one single childrens' encyclopaedia is the answer to either the problem of reading age or age appropriate content?
Where I think that Wikipedia could and should change re this is in our use of jargon. To my mind a "general interest" english language encyclopaedia should be written in plain English. I suspect other language versions have similar issues. Perhaps if we focussed more on this we would make it easier for those who wish to create childrens' versions.
Regards
WSC
On Thu, 23 Jun 2022 at 13:03, <wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
Send Wikimedia-l mailing list submissions to wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe, please visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikimedia-l.lists.wikimedia.org/ https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikimedia-l.lists.wikimedia.org/
You can reach the person managing the list at wikimedia-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Wikimedia-l digest..."
Today's Topics:
- Re: Small joyy: Txikipedia of the da(Neurodivergent Netizen)
Message: 1 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 17:13:33 -0700 From: Neurodivergent Netizen <idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com mailto:idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Message-ID: <8C62ADA1-09EE-46FF-B27D-389B6BB3E54C@gmail.com mailto:8C62ADA1-09EE-46FF-B27D-389B6BB3E54C@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9EEB7F4B-E2E5-42FB-AED5-C7C07107CEF2"
That wouldn't be a wise choice that WMF host such a wiki if it brings the risk of being legaly attacked on that ground, even for bad reasons and unsuccessfully, whereas it never happened to Vikidia in 15 years (and very few kind of bad buzz like "look what they teach to the children").
And of course, any WMF-affiliated wiki would be more at-risk simply because of the association with the more well-known Wikipedia.
The document is not really public yet. :-)
I think I can wait until it’s public and proofread. :-)
From, I dream of horses She/her
On Jun 22, 2022, at 1:45 PM, Ziko van Dijk <zvandijk@gmail.com mailto:zvandijk@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello, At the moment I am working on a document that extensively explains how we work on the Klexikon. If someone is interested, please send me a private message. The document is not really public yet. :-) Kind regards Ziko https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Klexikon https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Klexikon
Am Mi., 22. Juni 2022 um 19:27 Uhr schrieb Mathias Damour <mathias.damour@gmx.fr mailto:mathias.damour@gmx.fr>:
Hi,
De: "Neurodivergent Netizen" <idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com mailto:idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> I think a particular hurdle for a standalone WMF-affiliated kidipedia project is the COPPA, and other similar laws both in the US and elsewhere that could potentially increase civil liability. Another hurdle is that America is very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the potential safety risks when children are involved in websites. Then you add in the fact that kids are likely to continue editing Wikipedia instead of Kidipedia, and it’s not worth the extra effort. This effort would include hiring/reassigning staff so you can have a team of people for just Kidipedia, along with the background checks and identity verification needed. None of that are obstacles that aren’t in the way of kids editing the existing projects.
I predict a WMF-affiliated kidipedia would largely be abandoned quite quickly.
You are probably right. I would say COPPA may not be the biggest hurdle, yet the british "UK Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006" is another one, and moreover the fact that "America is very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the potential safety risks when children are involved in websites" (and I would also say that "America" weight more the right of parents to control what is taught to their children and less the right of the children to inform themselves - the latter being upheld by the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which the US didn't ratificate - compared to other countries). We reviewed it on https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Legal_matters https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Legal_matters
That wouldn't be a wise choice that WMF host such a wiki if it brings the risk of being legaly attacked on that ground, even for bad reasons and unsuccessfully, whereas it never happened to Vikidia in 15 years (and very few kind of bad buzz like "look what they teach to the children").
You tell about "hiring/reassigning staff so you can have a team of people for just Kidipedia", well, that's quite exactly the point I adressed on this blog post : Vikidia, l’anti-professionnalisation https://www.wikimedia.fr/vikidia-lanti-professionnalisation/ https://www.wikimedia.fr/vikidia-lanti-professionnalisation/ ...to tell that the vision of children needing to be only alongside their closed family and professionals workers - and that it should be the same if a wiki for children is set (that we would need professionnal educators either to write the articles, to design the project or to manage the community or all that together) - did cause much delay to the wiki encyclopedias for children, and how we do otherwise on Vikidia.
Reminder, the Wikikids project was developped on this page and subpages : https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids
Envoyé: mercredi 22 juin 2022 à 12:37 De: "Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga" <galder158@hotmail.com mailto:galder158@hotmail.com> À: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Objet: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia From our experience, is just the opposite: Wikipedia is not asking any extra step nor age confirmation, and legally you can have an account even if you are underage. Children are consulting Wikipedia without limits, and they can find adult content easily. We don't have any advice about that, nor filters at Commons, where you can find even porn using words that were not intended for that. The place is open, and we have massive visits from children, so providing them a better place, thought for them (as our strategic direction says) is better that not providing at all.
I can only agree!
Mathias Damour [[User:Astirmays]] _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/HS4SV6YSS5G7M4R53YJGFPGWHX24GMP3/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/... https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/IZDXGSZXB7ZPMLCNVBISGRI5XP7EAQHS/ To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org