Good points, Gnangarra. I started to write out a reply before realizing
that maybe I would give ideas to our adversaries, so I'll wait here for
Legal to talk. Perhaps some of us can continue this conversation behind
closed doors.
Pine
On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I think it would be nice for a more direct input from
the WMF over those
not following the Terms of use.
I see some potential pitfalls, even in chasing companies that charge for
content;
- would this draw WMF into a legal editorial position
- would it drive them to further hide their activities
- what would damage would be done if a court says its ok for a
company/individual to control its image even on Wikipedia. we already
deal
with the EUs right to vanish
sometimes its better to not open the can. I think a lot more discussion
over the implications and impact is needed unfortunately some of that can
only be behind closed doors it going to need community trust(something I
think isnt all there at the moment), before asking the WMF legal to pick a
fight with anyone.
On 2 January 2017 at 08:52, Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
(: I think that Legal could at least describe in
general terms what they
are currently doing and have plans to do in the near future.
If it turns out that the answers are "we aren't doing much and we aren't
planning to do more", then yes, asking the higher-ups to do something
about
this sounds like a good idea. By the way, I think
the timing for this
discussion is good, because WMF should be in the early stages of
formulating the 2017-2018 annual plan.
Happy new year!
Pine
On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Jytdog at Wikipedia <
jytdogtemp1(a)gmail.com
wrote:
> Pine, thanks for your reply, but Legal will not do anything like this
> unless they are instructed by management. That is why I directed my
> question to the board and management.
> I've asked at Jimbo's talk
page (bad timing, archived over the
holidays,
> will repost) and at Katherine's WP talk
page.
>
> Am very interested to hear from the board and/or WMF management on
this.
Jytdog
> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 10:50:07 -0800
> From: Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com>
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>rg>,
> Wikimedia Legal <legal(a)wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Where is WMF with pursuing companies that
> offer paid editing services
> Message-ID:
> <CAF=dyJhC8UqxkOY9FG9diGyobdgbbQaK_
+M=m9E5Bo3aysPAOw(a)mail.gmail.
> com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Forwarding to Legal. I'm aware of the general problem of undisclosed
COI
> editing, and agree that there should be some
enforcement of this,
> particularly given that WMF wants to use Wikipedia's NPOV and RS
policies
> as part of WMF's marketing. I also
wonder if WMF might be able to
recover
> > the costs of enforcement expenses somehow, perhaps by including a
> statement
> > in the TOS that says that people and their employers who engage in
> certain
> > types of undisclosed COI editing must (1) reimburse WMF for attorney
> fees,
> > court fees, and other related costs of investigations and
enforcement,
> and
> > (2) forfeit all revenue from their related activities to WMF. My
guess
is
> > that significant financial penalties would be a bigger deterrent than
> > name-and-shame and cease-and-desist letters.
> >
> > Pine
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
----------
> >
> >
> > Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2016 03:50:03 -0500
> > From: Jytdog at Wikipedia <jytdogtemp1(a)gmail.com>
> > To: wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Where is WMF with pursuing companies that
offer
> > paid editing services
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAAOzcj3cLaJOhvV6LvtqPTtULdj+9Ccanmht7EJQVLv+Lqa=Ww@mail.
> > gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > I am interested to learn if WMF management or the board has discussed
> > taking legal action against companies that offer services to edit
> Wikipedia
> > and that have no on-Wiki presence disclosing their edits (in en-WP at
> > least) per the Terms of Use. We all know the companies and their
> websites,
> > where they use the Wikipedia name, etc. I have looked and never
found
> > disclosure by any of those companies in
en-WP. I have looked and
found
> no
> > public evidence of WMF legal engaging with these companies, other
than
Wiki-PR.
Some en-Wiki editors recently identified a long-term paid editor and
brought the matter to ANI: thread is here
<https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:
Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=757170150#
Earflaps_-_accusations_of_being_an_undisclosed_paid_
editor_and_a_sock_puppet>.
This brought this whole thing to mind, and is something I have been
wanting
to ask about.
Three questions:
Has this been discussed, and if so, what has/have the outcomes been?
Also, is there budget for WMF legal to take action against such
companies?
If not, would you all please consider that?
Thanks.
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