Sorry I failed to send this to the list the first time
--- Birgitte SB birgitte_sb@yahoo.com wrote:
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:20:18 -0800 (PST) From: Birgitte SB birgitte_sb@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia-wide global blocking mechanism? To: effeietsanders@gmail.com
I will grant you that it easier in the short-term to not use an opt-in system. However I strongly disagree that in practice the results would be the same as requiring opt-in. Even the most wonderful idea can have disastrous results because of poor communications. I can agree with the principles of this idea, but I also also think that such changes in principle require comprehensible notification. If you are not willing to bother with the communication(either through annoucements or using opt-in), you are setting yourselves up for failure. Personally I think opt-in is more workable than blanket notifications in local languages. Using an opt-in system will mean it will take some time for the system to reach full effect. But you should still get the feature you desire, and I believe you will save yourselves a great deal of difficulty in the long run.
Frankly I am surprised your argument against opt-in is that it would be easier for the stewards to do otherwise. If someone does not wish to bother communicating with small wikis and wikis which have trouble with English, I wonder why they ever thought to become a steward.
Birgitte SB
--- effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com wrote:
no or barely a community. Most of the wiki's are small sized, and many show little activity. It is much easier, and would in practice be almost the same, to just automatically opt in projects...
BR, Lodewijk
2008/2/1, Birgitte SB birgitte_sb@yahoo.com:
The problem with opt-out is that a wiki must
know
this
even *exists* in order to opt-out. So if you
are
capable of notifing all the village pumps in a language they can comprehend, this is
reasonable.
If
you are not capable of that, opt-out is not reasonable. If this is mainly for wiki's with
no
community, then allow stewards to "opt-in" such wiki's. If they have no community, they will not object.
Birgitte SB
--- effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi,
I agree with your concerns. However, currently
a
similar system is already active, proxyblocker. This system
blocks
some (I dont know how many) proxies, detected somewhere in 2005.
Dont
worry, no new blocks are being added, but some are still in place.
The
user just gets a message that he is blocked by proxyblocker. We
could
pick a logical name to appear in the message, that would
point
to
meta. Maybe CrosswikiBlocker, or VandalbotBlocker or
something.
Opt-in is not workable. This new thing is
mainly
for
wiki's with no community. You can only opt in if you have a community. Hence, opt in would not work. After all, the stewards mainly
have
to block bots on wiki's with no or almost no normal edits. when
there
are people around, and they have sysops and a community,
they
can handle it themselves generally. However, I would plea
for
opt-out.
For the unblocking, I do not think that should
be a
major issue, if we would choose for a maximum of a block in the
range
of 1 day-1week. In that case, the chance that someone is affected
by
that block, but is not the person who was doing the malicious
edits, is
quite slim. Furthermore, that person will survive to wait
a
day
or a week, no big harm done. If it proofs to be a major blocker
for a
specific community, ie they would only have one IP for
a
whole country or something, they could opt out.
BR, Eia
2008/1/31, Birgitte SB
--- Andrew Gray shimgray@gmail.com wrote:
On 31/01/2008, Birgitte SB
wrote:
> This is the key problem. I think that
unless
we
are > capable of notifing all wikis of about
the
workings of > this process in a language they are
proficient
taking > blocks Wikimedia wide will cause a lot
of
harm.
Of > course an opt-in system would be very
workable.
Would logging it in the local block-log
system
be an
acceptable method of notification?
I was more thinking first about a
notification
that
this ability even *exists* before addressing notification individual blocks. However
regarding
individual blocks what language are you
proposing
the
local log entry be written in?
The only reasonable way to do this is to
have
the
log
entries be a consistent pre-arranged formula
that
links to a local page explaining the system
in
the
local language. The best way to ensure that
all
this
is set-up is to use an opt-in system that
requires
these things be set-up before blocks .
Anything else means some wiki(s) will wake
up
one
day
to realize there are inexplicable blocks in
place.
Likely with logs entries they cannot read.
And
very
likely when they start making inquiries no
one
will be
able to explain what has happened to them
own
language
leading to further misunderstandings.
Seriously make a system to handle these
blocks
and
require every wiki wishing to join the
system
file
a
bug and things will go much more smoothly.
If
the
stewards find they are doing tedious manual
blocks
on
a certain wiki, they can encourage the that
wiki
to
file the bug.
Birgitte SB
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