Hoi,
The city of Moscow would be refused a chapter.
Thanks,
GerardM
2009/1/20 Nathan <nawrich(a)gmail.com>
Ziko,
The United States previously had no chapter, no organization in which
members of the community could gain membership and organize events,
activities and pursuits independent from the legal organization of
Wikimedia.
The state of New York has 20 million people. What country in Europe or
anywhere else of 20 million people would be refused a chapter? On what
basis
should such a chapter be denied? That people oppose the creation of a New
York chapter, and thus limiting American community members in a way
non-American community members are not limited, on the basis that it
somehow
creates an imbalance... I find it hard to credit. Nothing in a New York
chapter should be interpreted as reducing the power over Wikimedia of
Europeans. It should be noted that there are a number of non-American
members of the Board, and neither the director nor the deputy director of
the organization is American.
Nathan
On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Ziko van Dijk <zvandijk(a)googlemail.com
wrote:
First, I do not want to diminish the happiness of
the New Yorkers having
a
chapter making their activities easier. But I do
think very negative
about
this step of the Board, both for emotional and
practical reasons.
Emotional: Having a NYC chapter next to the French, German etc. makes
France, Germany etc. look the equals to New York. It makes the Wikimedia
Foundation look an American organization that has regional chapters in
the
50 states, and also has some afiliates in the
"colonies" (France, Germany
etc.). As Gerard has said, some countries are more equal than others.
Practical: When I once talked with Arne Klempert about the possibility of
an
Esperanto or Latin or Alemannic chapter, he explained to me that
Wikimedia
accepts only chapters within international
boundaries, one chapter per
country. There is a German, Austrian, and a Swiss chapter, not a German
language or a French language chapter. If this would not be so, if we
would
have chapters based on something else, we would
get into a lot of
trouble.
And he easily convinced me, because I know
similar problems from other
organizations.
Allowing sub national chapters (or super national chapters) is giving
wrong
ideas to a lot of people. If we did not deny a
chapter to the New
Yorkers,
how can we deny it to other regions, minorities
etc.? (Or prevent that
personal conflicts are realized on the level of regions?)
Some more questions:
* NYC chapter does not clearly define its borders, talks about a region
where it wants to be active. What if other Wikimedians wants to create a
chapter in a city that is now in the New York chapter region? When a
North
Eastern US Chapter knocks on the door of WMF,
will the NYC chapter be
happy
about and volontarily dissolve?
* Ethnically divided countries: Belgium, for example: What if one group
of
Belgian Wikimedians wants to create a Belgian
chapter, but others want
three
regional chapters (Brussels, Flanders, Wallonia)?
* Minorities without region: What if there is an Estonian chapter, but
Russian speaking people there demand a chapter of their own?
* When the chapters are going to work together more than now, and are
going
to elect WMF board members: Will one chapter have
one vote? Will there be
50
US chapters with 50 votes, and one French chapter with one vote?
* Isn't it much easier for WMF to relate to a limited number of national
chapters than with a potentially unlimited number of national, sub
national,
or super national chapters?
It might have been better to consider the NYC chapter indeed as a "sub
chapter", a stand-in until there will be an US chapter.
Kind regards
Ziko
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