Hello Gerard,
Hmm, this is pretty adventurous, isn't it?
GPL is not compatible with GFDL and a poll to change a license of current
content is only valid if the license is entitled to the community as a
collaborative work and not to contributors like in the case of Wikimedia
projects. Otherwise, you should be only able to get edits made 100% by
people who agreed (but I guess, you know all that already).
Also, in some countries (France for example), there is a "database-specific
copyright law" that may apply on dictionaries (a structured list of
synonyms, translations and all being nothing more than a database for the
law) and which basically forbids to copy a "substantial amount" -both in
term of data fields and entries- of a database (if you read some French:
).
Thanks,
Jerome Banal
2006/11/15, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>om>:
Hoi,
Let me explain why WiktionaryZ allows for what are in effect two
licenses that are not compatible otherwise.
It is not possible to copyright facts. It is however possible to
copyright collections of facts. Every Wiktionary is a collection of
facts but there is no single person who owns this copyright. At best
there is a formal owner; the Wikimedia Foundation and there is a
practical owner that is its community. There are arguments about
definitions being copyrightable and there have been court cases about
this. It was typically found that there is often only one way of
defining certain things. This resulted in many dictionaries having bogus
information that only aims to "prove" that when found, the content of
their collection was illegally copied.
For WiktionaryZ we have defined success as: "When people find an
application for our data that we did not think about, that is success".
The consequence is that the data has to be available for inclusions in
applications. This means that we aim to provide the data in STANDARD
export formats. The data has to be identifiable to be in a recognised
language, a recognised script and a recognised orthography. There are
few practical standards for this. We went on a limb by choosing
ISO-639-3. This is the best currently available but this still does not
provide sufficient granularity. This may only arrive with the ISO-639-6.
When the data itself cannot be "protected" with licenses or copyright,
the question is what is it that we want from the copyright, the license.
What we want to make plane is that the data is available at WiktionaryZ
for any purposes and that we REALLY want people to help us complete
curate our data. This is what the CC-by allows us to do. It is possible
to include the data necessary to build OpenOffice (or any other) spell
checkers. These can be re-build every week. As long as the end-user
knows how and where to fix errors and omissions, we have the
functionality of our license. This is what mandatory attribution provides.
When a Wiktionary community wants to /cooperate /with WiktionaryZ, there
are several ways in which this can be done. We can have interwiki links
on the Wiktionaries articles to WiktionaryZ. When people want to use the
WZ content in Wiktionary they can. When a Wiktionary community wants to
/integrate /their data in WiktionaryZ integrally, they can vote on this.
From the WZ point of view, if there is at least a
75% majority of the
active community in favour, it should provide enough clarity
required to
investigate the integration of the data of that Wiktionary into
WiktionaryZ. In the past several large collections under other licenses
like the GPL have been integrated into the different Wiktionaries. The
copyright holders of these collections may find it in themselves to
grant WiktionaryZ this same privilege they gave to the Wiktionary
projects.
When people edit content in WiktionaryZ, these changes can be used under
a less Free license, you only need to attribute.
Thanks,
GerardM
Jerome Banal wrote:
Hello,
We had a small chat at Wiktionary fr: since a few days about moving
/new/
edits made on Wiktionary fr (and others some
other are interested) to
dual
licensing GFDL - CC-by. After a small discussion
with Anthere about
whether
we could be allowed to do it and how, she advised
me to come and talk
with
you all.
So maybe a little explanation of the reasons and consequences would be
useful.
The main reason we have in mind for discussing it is to have a better
cooperation with the project WiktionaryZ, which is dual-licensed as
specified above. It basically means that we can take its content under
GFDL
license, but that they can take only contents
that are under GFDL and
CC-by
at the same time. Which is not our case.
Some people thinks that helping WiktionaryZ reusing our content would
make
them progress faster, and in return, that their
progresses would help us
making progress in the future in several possible ways (software part,
data
part...).
What would be the consequences about this license modification ?
* A site license somewhat more complex. Edits prior to the date of
change
would have to remain GFDL only (unless specific
agreement with users),
new
edits would be dual-licensed. This is not awful:
people can still reuse
the
whole Wiktionary as if it was GFDL-only. CC-by is
just a bonus.
* As this is not a CC-by-SA (incompatible with WiktionaryZ), Wiktionary
content could be taken, possibly modified and redistributed under any
compatible licence with CC-by, which is about all as long as you give
attribution, including non-free licenses (but of course, the original
remains free so it should not be a big deal).
* Import from Wikipedia and other GFDL-only projects will not be
possible
without prior agreement with past contributors.
These imports are not
insignificant but remain limited in amount and often in quality.
* If we have to negotiate importing external source, we would have to
request dual-licensing, as WiktionaryZ needs to, right now. CC-by is
more
free (I know, it's paradoxical; see it as
"there are less restrictions,
including the one to keep derivative free") than GFDL so it may be more
difficult, as it is possible that the original authors can't get the
enhancements made by someone else back in their own work due to a
different
license choice.
So there are good points (better collaborative work with WiktionaryZ)
and
bad points (probably more difficult reusing of
some external sources
-like
some other GFDL dictionaries- which brought a
good amount of articles in
the
past and of derivative works).
OK, I think that's the picture. What do you think about it? Should
Wiktionary users start a poll on their projects? On Meta? Or does that
just
sound bad to you?
Thanks all,
Jerome Banal
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