Wil, if you want to use email lists for your discussions, you may find a
better reception if you use one of the project- or task-specific lists.
There is a page on English Wikipedia with links to mailing lists that most
closely relate to that project and a more extensive list at Meta that
describes lists for many other projects and specific areas of interest.
One is more likely to get a positive response when the audience is more
You will probably find that a lot of practical questions you have asked
could easily be answered at the English Wikipedia Teahouse page, where you
have been invited. That would include questions about how to tell if
something has been deleted from a page, how to read page histories, or even
how to tell whether or not someone is WMF staff.
Thanks, I wasn't aware I could do this. I'm
assuming that it would be
obvious who was an employee at Wikimedia in the log, too. I posted the
following to Wikipediocracy a few minutes ago:
I may have misread which page the rev was on, or I misunderstood the
person who said s/he revdeleted it in thinking that it had been
revdeleted in the previous few minutes. This is exactly why I prefer
public recorded forums. Now no one can go back to clear up the
confusion. For all I know, I might have to apologize for a
misunderstanding, and it would really suck if I somehow misrepresented
things and didn't have any opportunity to straighten things out.
Of course, it is entirely on me. I knew that the IRC channels weren't
logged, and that it was a bannable offense to log them (for those who
aren't familiar with IRC, this essentially means that you aren't
supposed to save conversations there; in most channels that's A-OK,
but on all of the most used wikipedia channels it seems to be
disallowed). Next time I have a concern, I will take it to wikimedia-l
or one of the other mailing lists. As this example also shows, one
can't be sure that the revs on a page within Wikimedia's wikis
themselves won't be redacted after-the-fact. I'm not expressing an
opinion about whether stuff should be redacted or on what grounds, but
I am asserting that it is possible to do so.
There is a discussion about this issue there, as well. It can be
followed at the link I posted earlier. Here's the last page of the
discussion that includes the comment above:
On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Wil, the deletion log of the page in question is
publicly visible. There
are no WMF employees who have deleted anything on that page, ever. This
information you can check for yourself instead of
relying on the words of
On 28 May 2014 12:23, Wil Sinclair <wllm(a)wllm.com> wrote:
> Hi Fae, if you're referring to the discussion on this page, then I
> think I make it quite clear why I won't engage with WMF employees
> going forward:
> To be sure, I'm not used to having anyone from Lila's team immediately
> emailing her through their official company addresses as soon as I ask
> a question in a public forum. In this case, the WMF has made it quite
> clear that the IRC channels aren't official and/or sponsored by the
> WMF, and I was asking about community affairs WRT to those channels.
> So my question about why a user was kicked from the channel didn't
> have anything to do with the WMF. I still don't understand why this
> employee felt it was necessary to bring Lila's attention to "safety
> concerns" through official WMF employee channels, although I'm sure he
> or she felt it was the right thing to do and I've given them the
> benefit of the doubt that it was. Of course, I can't form my own
> independent opinion, since a WMF employee revdeleted the rev in
> question in the ~10 minutes between when it was first posted and when
> I tried clicking on the link.
> In any case, it should be made clear that the WMF did not ask me to
> disengage with employees and has not yet asked me to stop posting to
> Wikipediocracy directly. So far, the organization itself has respected
> my individuality; I can only appeal to everyone in the WP community
> and all WMF employees to do the same in the future. I will be engaging
> with the broader WP community in whatever way I can, but I've made the
> hard decision to limit my engagement with WMF employees to public,
> logged forums from now on.
> On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 5:59 AM, Fæ <faewik(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 28/05/2014, Lila Tretikov <lila(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > ...
> >> independent individual
> >> able to speak with his own voice and ask his own questions. He does
> >> take direction from me. He will not
work for the WMF or engage with
> >> employees.
> > Thanks for making these distinctions. It is sad to see that your time
> > and energy is being used so early on in your introduction to the
> > Wikimedia community, in creating a political distance between yourself
> > and the public actions of your life partner, due to his casual
> > curiosity about Wikimedia projects. A curiosity that only manifested
> > itself shortly after the public announcement of your employment by the
> > Foundation board.
> > I do not really understand the point being made about not "engaging"
> > with WMF employees, any active volunteer on Wikimedia projects should
> > and must be free to engage with WMF employees. The statement does not
> > appear to match actions over the last 24 hours, with Wil freely making
> > public comments about his dissatisfaction after conversations
> > (emails?) with some WMF employees.
> > Thanks again for clarifying your position during this difficult start
> > to your engagement.
> > Fae
> > --
> > faewik(a)gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
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