בתאריך יום ג׳, 25 ביוני 2019 ב-18:02 מאת Lucas Werkmeister <
mail@lucaswerkmeister.de>:
On 25.06.19 23:18, Yair Rand wrote:
So far outside Wikimedia
spaces that the only place it was even _announced_ was an off-wiki
mailing
list?
Where would you have announced it, then? I asked for a movement-wide
announcement place a while ago in a different context [1] and got no
satisfactory answer; the most popular one was wikimedia-l (this list),
and the only on-wiki answers were “the village pumps” (i. e. scattered)
– with the caveat that you should translate your message first, which
doesn’t scale well. I’m not saying the Space shouldn’t have been
announced anywhere else, but it certainly seems to me that there is a
need for a space like it, and in particular I don’t understand why you
criticize the choice of wikimedia-l for the initial announcement when
there seems to be good consensus for it being a central movement
announcement and discussion platform.
[1]:
https://twitter.com/LucasWerkmeistr/status/1107337860389265413
I would have publicly announced it at least on the place that it's trying
to replace: Meta-wiki.
Every single
moderator is a WMF employee?
There can hardly be many other moderators immediately after launch, but
if you check the “trust levels and user rights” post [2], you’ll see
that the software (Discourse) automatically promotes users based on
certain criteria (similar to autoconfirmed status on-wiki), and the
highest level seems in principle to be open to any user (though the
criteria still have to be fleshed out, which to me seems reasonable at
this stage.)
The outline ELappen (WMF) put up says explicitly that Wikimedia Space is
intended to be "A news and discussion space for the Wikimedia movement run
by Community Relations."
In the past, Wikimedia institutions have built things at the community's
request, with an clear "We set up the technical work, everything in it is
the community's responsibility now" message. This is pretty much the exact
opposite of that, especially since there already was a space that was
community-run with the same scope.
Moderation of communications is something the WMF does not run, period. The
perception that the WMF might think it can get involved in it is what led
to the current chaos on enwiki.
[2]:
https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/t/trust-levels-and-user-rights-in-wikimed…
Forum using closed groups, with non-transparent
communication?
This question is a bit too short for me to make sense of, sorry. Closed
groups are not the default, so are you criticizing their mere existence?
Do you want to claim that that closed groups are never, ever warranted?
Because in my experience the claim at [3] that “[b]ecause on-wiki spaces
don’t allow for [closed] collaboration, some volunteers have gravitated
toward … other … platforms” is completely true.
[3]:
https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/t/closed-groups/87
It is very deliberate that on-wiki spaces don't allow for closed
collaboration. Non-transparent activities is generally not accepted without
a very good reason.
(Closed-source software, unless I'm mistaken?)
Both WordPress and Discourse are free and open source software.
Last time the WMF set something up with WordPress, they did the whole thing
in private, failed to publish the source code for the custom theme for
months after launch, and also user violated privacy requirements by sharing
data with third parties by loading data from external websites. I see a new
website secretly set up with WordPress, a new tracker for the fact that
it's violating the privacy of every user by loading third-party resources
(T226559), and no mention anywhere of the publishing of the theme's source
code. It is, of course, perfectly possible that I just missed it, or that
there's no issue for some other reason.
Also there's no content license information anywhere. Or pages about dumps,
which would probably be necessary for allowing forking.
I don't understand how we got to the point where something like this isn't
even known about until after its launch. Or how it looks like everything
about it was built by the WMF. I don't understand what's going on in there.
It's quite concerning.
-- Yair Rand
Cheers,
Lucas
Is there something the Wikimedia Foundation would like to tell us?
-- Yair Rand
בתאריך יום ג׳, 25 ביוני 2019 ב-14:56 מאת Pine W <
wiki.pine(a)gmail.com
>:
> Hi Maria,
>
> Thanks for this update.
>
> I hope that you can answer a question. I may be mistaken, but my
impression
> is that the purposes that are outlined for
Wikimedia Space are within
the
> intended scopes of the Meta and Outreach
wikis, as well as Wikimedia-l.
I
> think that the community would be willing to
consider design
improvements
> and additional features for Meta and
Outreach, such as calendar and map
> tools that are easy to use. Design improvements and additional features
> might also be welcome by third parties who use MediaWiki software and
could
> eventually have the option to implement the
changes on their own sites.
Can
> you explain the decision to launch a new site
instead of proposing
design
improvements and additional features for Meta and Outreach?
Thank you,
Pine
(
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
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