Hi Galder, I just did this fix
<https://eu.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition&diff=prev&oldid=9637458>
and
your Vivarium seems to be working now. The documentation was ok, but a bit
confusing, so I improved it too. Soon I'll send a patch to make those
"special categories" unnecessary. In the meantime, they're a necessary
annoyance, I'm afraid. Cheers!
On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 5:37 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
galder158(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Felipe, that's a really great move. I
looked to these examples a
couple o years ago, and this seems that a good option to add some
interactive content. Anyway, I have tried to replicate it and can't make it
work (
https://eu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Txantiloi:Vivarium). Is the
documentation right?
Best
Galder
------------------------------
*From:* Felipe Schenone <schenonef(a)gmail.com>
*Sent:* Friday, March 22, 2024 10:39 PM
*To:* Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
*Subject:* [Wikimedia-l] Re: We need more interactive content: we are
doing it wrong
Hi everyone, good news!
Thanks to this humble change
<https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/extensions/Gadgets/+/1005092>
(deployed
today) it is now possible to load a specific gadget when a specific
template is used in a page. This opens the door (or perhaps a window?) to
interactive content using JavaScript. See for example this article in
the Spanish Wikipedia <https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juego_de_la_vida> for
an interactive instance of Conway's Game of Life, and scroll down for more
instances!
I started documenting the system at
MediaWiki.org, under the title template
gadgets <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template_gadgets>, and included
many working examples. Check it out!
Perhaps the system isn't as friendly or powerful a solution as some might
hope. But it's very real, and it only depends on us now. Next week, when
the documentation and examples are a bit more cooked, I'll propose adding a
few "template gadgets" to the English Wikipedia, since my experience has
taught me that when something hits the English Wikipedia, it quickly
spreads elsewhere. I'll link to the proposal when I do, in case you want to
participate.
There's so much more that could be said about this, but I'd rather keep
it short. If you have questions or ideas, feel free to write them here or
at the relevant talk page
<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Template_gadgets>.
Kind regards,
Felipe (User:Sophivorus)
On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 5:31 AM danboy12342 Mui <danboy12342(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi everyone,
I agree that Wikipedia needs to spend a few quarters spending time on our
main product. The website is very impressively still the top result of a
huge number of searches and in this new AI age; despite the controversy
around it, wikipedia is the top source for many LLMs. Therefore while it
doesn't need to be the only focus or even *the* focus most of the time
it does need to be kept working but not just kept as is, it needs to be
innovative and continue to meet the growing demands of a "modern" and
"useable" site that allow users to get the information they need as fast
and effectively as possible, these days that means interactivity.
I feel I'm repeating others but a quick burst of very serious investment
into the site and its many sister pages needs to happen sooner rather than
later.
Finally I'd like to thank Marshall again for his remarkable comments.
It's good to see that this issue is clearly a priority that foundation
staff are already looking at.
- Daniel.
---------------------
On Wed, Feb 7, 2024, 09:17 Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi
I just like to highlight one point, that raises concerns;
perhaps enabling other platforms/apps to use our content to make
interactive or video materials there.
While this sounds like an easy solution we run into a number of hidden
costs. These are significant when we push for reusers to present what we
are doing in better ways we lose the movement's revenue stream as less
people see our donation banners. With less direct traffic we also
sacrifice the ability to convert readers into contributors which has always
been our primary source of community sustainability and growth. I know
other providers will find different ways to present our efforts in part or
in whole that is part of our purpose, to do our mission and achieve our
goals we need prioritise internal solutions.
This also leads us to a related issue that our mission is to make the sum
of all knowledge freely available. When we look to outside parties to share
our efforts we lose our ability to ensure that the information is neutral,
and that it's freely accessible. Butch is right in noting that when we put
funding into third party sites it is taking resources away from the
movement, yet those same funds were donated to us on the basis of
maintaining and building our infrastructure. It would be a wise investment
to enable some of those much needed interactive and video content here
through purchasing rights.
On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 at 12:20, Butch Bustria <bustrias(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
My earnest hope that the Wikimedia Foundation on its 2024-2025 Annual
Financial Plan prioritize and I mean put first among all is the technical
infrastructure among all its budgetary items. We can scale down budgets to
3rd party organizations like the Knowledge Equity Fund, Movement Strategy
Governance funding, campaign grants, and other "wants" to accomodate a
highly technically reliable and stable Wikimedia online projects ("needs"),
future proof, and user friendly experience which require investments on
quality manpower, hardware, applications and the like. We love open source
but we also be pragmatic and wise on selection of choices because we want
our content be conveniently available and reliable to our readers, users,
consumers and also editors.
A welcome development is the MediaWiki Users and Developers Conference,
the successor to EMWCon.
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_Users_and_Developers_Conference_20…
The said conference will be held in Portland, Oregon, from April 17–19,
2024.
I also hope the Foundation invest in more technical gatherings, both
onsite, hybrid or online to engage and reach out to more technical
contributors, within and beyond the Wikimedia movement. I also hope WMF to
start exploring eastward to Asia or elsewhere in the world as well fully
diversify the technical community.
Kind regards,
*Butch Bustria*
On Wed, Feb 7, 2024, 4:54 AM Brion Vibber <bvibber(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
Thanks for weighing in, Marshall!
I agree wholeheartedly that we need to do a proper architecture for a
sandbox for interactive media, that will be safe (first and foremost),
perform well in the browser, work across device types (desktop web, mobile
web, mobile apps), and maintain our key requirements on editability and
reusability, balanced against the security and privacy needs of users if
we're going to invest the effort.
Backing up to do it right rather than patch up Graphs “one more time” is
the right thing, and I’m very happy to see a confluence of interest around
this now!
My hope is we can figure out how to make that architecture & testing work
happen in the near term until we collectively (inside WMF and out) can
wrangle resources to make the implementation production-ready.
Once we have a common infrastructure to build on, it’ll be easier for
work to progress on individual types of media (graphs, charts, maps,
animations, editable simulations, coding examples, etc, as well as classics
like panorama viewers and integrating the audio/video player into a sandbox
for heightened security).
My biggest hope is that we’ll enable more work from outside WMF to happen
– letting volunteers and other orgs who might have their own specialty
areas and work funding to progress without every change being a potential
new security risk.
When we have succeeded in the past, we have succeeded by making tools
that other people can use as their own basis to build their own works. I’m
confident we can get there on interactive media with some common focus.
Let's all try to capture some of this momentum while we've got it and set
ourselves up for success down the road.
– b
On Tue, Feb 6, 2024, 12:27 PM <mmiller(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
Hi everyone – My name is Marshall Miller, I am a Senior Director of
Product at the Wikimedia Foundation, and I work with many of the teams that
are involved with the user experience of our websites and apps, such as the
Editing, Web, Growth, and Mobile Apps teams (among others) [1]. I’m part of
the leadership group that makes decisions about how the WMF teams approach
things like graphs, interactive content, and video. Thank you all for
having this in-depth and important discussion.
I know that issues with graphs [2] are what started this discussion, but
I agree that it makes sense to think about this in terms of the broader
category of “interactive content”, because other kinds of interactive
content, such as maps or timelines, would share architecture with what is
needed for graphs (video is a different and more complicated content
type). I wrote a lot in this email, but here are a couple of the main
points up front: to support graphs and other interactive content, we would
need to take a step back and make a substantial investment in sustainable
architecture to do it – so that it works well, safely, and is built to
last. And because that’s a substantial investment, we need to weigh it
against other important investments in order to decide whether and when to
do it.
I know that it is very frustrating that the Graph extension has not been
operational for many months – it means readers haven’t been seeing graphs
in articles, and editors haven’t been able to use graphs to do things like
monitor backlogs in WikiProjects. Over the months of trying to find a way
to turn graphs back on, it has become clear that there isn’t a safe
shortcut here and that the path forward will require a substantial
investment – one that we have not yet started given the other priorities
we’ve been working on. Every year we have to make difficult tradeoffs
around what areas of our technical infrastructure we can and cannot take
on. In the current fiscal year, the Product and Technology department has
made experienced editors a priority [3], and many things that volunteers
have asked for are either accomplished or in flight:
Improvements to PageTriage (complete) [4]
Watchlist in the iOS app (complete) [5]
Patrolling in the Android app (in progress) [6]
Dark mode (in progress) [7]
Improvements to the Commons Upload Wizard (in progress) [8]
…and other projects.
But I know this conversation isn’t as much about what editors need as
what current and future readers need. Between talking about interactive
content and talking about video, it sounds like we’re having the larger
conversation of what we should be offering today’s and tomorrow’s readers
to help them learn from encyclopedic content – whether we need to be
offering interactivity, or video, or perhaps enabling other platforms/apps
to use our content to make interactive or video materials there. This is a
really important conversation, because even working together we probably
will not be able to build all of it – we’ll have to make hard choices about
where to invest. One place where this broader conversation is happening is
called “Future Audiences”, which does experiments on how to reach newer
generations who use the internet differently than previous generations –
and thinking particularly about video. Future Audiences has regular calls
with community members to shape the direction of those experiments, which
in turn inform how the broader Foundation prioritizes. I hope many of you
will get involved in those conversations – you can sign up here. [9]
Focusing back on graphs, since that’s what kicked this thread off, the
several approaches we’ve attempted for quickly re-enabling the extension
have ended up having security or performance problems. Therefore, we think
that if we were to support graphs and other interactive content, we would
need to plan substantial investment in sustainable architecture. This way,
our approach would work securely and stably for the longer term. But that
would take significant resources, and we’ll need to weigh it against many
other important priorities, like tools for functionaries, improvements to
the editing experience, automated ways to stop vandals, etc.
To be clear, if we do assign resources to the planning and building of an
architecture for graphs (and other interactive content), it means that we
are still at least several more months away from having a working
Foundation-supported architecture. Therefore, I think we should also be
having the additional conversation that many others have brought up about
what volunteers can do in these intervening months to make graphs somewhat
available to users. I know people are talking about that concretely on the
Phabricator task, and I will join that conversation as well.
For the bigger question, I would like to start with some more learning
about which kinds of interactive content are important for our
encyclopedia, and how our community members see the evolution of the
reading experience on our projects. I’d like to have some small
conversations with many of you so that we can get into the details and
ideas, joined by some of my colleagues. I’ll start reaching out to see who
is interested in talking – and please let me know directly if you’d like to
talk.
Thank you for weighing in so far, and let’s keep talking and planning
together.
Marshall
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:MMiller_(WMF)
[2]
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T334940
[3]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2023-2024#…
[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Page_Curation/2023_Moderator_Tools_…
!
[5]
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Apps/Team/iOS/Watchlist#October_20…
[6]
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Apps/Team/Android/Anti_Vandalism
[7]
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Reading/Web/Accessibility_for_reading
[8]
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:WMF_support_for_Commons/Upload_W…
[9]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Future_Audiences#Sign_up_to_participate!
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