+1 for public archives to start. Private lists are almost never made
public later, even where there's no need for privacy.
A more transparent alternative is to make any list publicly-archived
(archives world-readable, even if membership and ability to post to the
list is restricted), while setting it up and discussing its purpose. If
list members have specific uses that would require privacy, that purpose
can drive a decision to make it private. Then at least those founding
discussions and the reason for list privacy are visible to others.
The converse doesn't happen. The only people whose voices count in a
decision to make a list public are generally those already on the list.
And they have access, so they have no pressing need to review whether its
archives should be public.
Gregory Varnum writes:
the whole point of creating it would be defeated.
Well, Carlos mentioned 10 uses for the list, none of which need private
discussion. It sounds like you're saying an 11th is "encouraging affiliates
who don't currently write about their work and experiences, to do so" and
you think a significant number will only do so if their messages are not
publicly visible or archived.
The downside is that you defined the list very broadly, also encouraging
people who currently write about their work publicly to start using this
new list: so now those thoughts will be lost to the larger community
forever. And the majority of outreach projects, event organizers, local
communities, and groups (which aren't interested in going through a formal
recognition process) will be walled out.
SJ
On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:18 PM, Gregory Varnum <gregory.varnum(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Our current plan is to bring this up with the list
once there is a good
number of people on it.
Given that the list is for affiliates, our feeling is that it is best for
them to decide how they would like to use the list. If a structure is
imposed on them, it is less likely they will use the list, and the whole
point of creating it would be defeated. Since there were requests for the
list to be private, it seemed easier to start from that point and make
changes based on the consensus of those we hope will utilize the list most.
-greg (User:Varnent)
Vice Chair, Affiliations Committee
On Oct 19, 2015, at 1:10 PM, Ed Erhart
<the.ed17(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I too question the need for a private mailing list. We should require
more
than a just a "consistent request"
before we reduce transparency and
create
yet another walled garden away from the
community.
--Ed
On Oct 16, 2015 12:07 AM, "Pine W" <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Got it. Thanks Varnent.
>
> Regarding the privacy question: I'm sort of thinking that if we really
want
> to keep the new list private for legal or
other reasons, it should be
run
> outside of WMF servers like the chapters list
is. On the other hand, if
the
> purpose of the new list is to facilitate
discussion among affiliates in
a
> smaller and less public group while still
being open to WMF employees
to a
> limited degree, then the hosting proposed
here makes sense. Personally,
I
> get the sense that the affiliate and WMF
relationships have generally
> (there are exceptions) warmed a bit over the past couple of years as
> affiliate governance and leadership have evolved and as WMF's evaluation
> capacity has improved, so I'm fine with the new design. Thanks for
working
> on this.
>
> Pine
> On Oct 15, 2015 8:55 PM, "Gregory Varnum" <gregory.varnum(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hey Pine,
>>
>> As you know, AffCom started looking into this list after some
discussions
>> with affiliates in Berlin, Wikimania, and
at that page you referred to.
> We
>> did talk with that list’s moderators about potentially reusing that
list
>> (largely why the creation of this list
took awhile). However,
ultimately,
>> we decided to proceed with the creation
of this list.
>>
>> The old list is not on Wikimedia servers or officially connected to
>> AffCom, so I cannot speak to its future. However, it has becoming
>> increasingly inactive, is limited to chapters (so excludes a majority
of
>> our affiliates), and not something we
have promoted recently. My
personal
>> hope is that this new broader list
replaces that one over time, but
that
> is
>> not something we can “force” as it’s not a resource we officially help
>> manage.
>>
>> -greg (User:Varnent)
>> Vice Chair, Affiliations Committee
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 15, 2015, at 5:19 PM, Pine W <wiki.pine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Carlos,
>>>
>>> Can you clarify how this list relates to the existing chapters mailing
>>> list? (Also, please see the discussion at
>>>
>>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Affiliates_Network#Mailing_l…
>>> ).
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Pine
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Carlos M. Colina <
>> maorx(a)wikimedia.org.ve>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> On behalf of the Affiliations Committe, I am pleased to introduce the
>>>> launch of the Wikimedia Affiliates mailing list, which is basically a
>> place
>>>> for all the affiliates (chapters, thematic organizations, user
groups)
>> to
>>>> discuss issues related to affiliates, make announcements to other
>>>> affiliates, and collaborate on activities and community-wide events.
> The
>>>> idea is to help facilitate the dialogue affiliates across our
> movement,
>>>> plus collaborative discussions like community-wide activities, joint
>>>> edit-a-thons, regional conferences, blog/report posts, or other
>>>> communications from affiliates.
>>>>
>>>> Each Wikimedia movement affiliate is allocated three spots on the
>> mailing
>>>> list. All affiliates may contact the Affiliations Committee to
request
>>>> additional spots if needed.
>>>>
>>>> Please find a bit more information on Meta:
>>>>
>>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliates/Affiliates_ma…
>>>> and do not hesitate contacting us
if you have further questions.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Carlos
>>>> --
>>>> "*Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua jee
> wayuukanairua
>>>> junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka. Ayatashi waya
> junain."
>>>> Carlos M. Colina
>>>> Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 |
>>
www.wikimedia.org.ve
>>>> <http://wikimedia.org.ve>
>>>> Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations Committee
>>>> Phone: +972-52-4869915
>>>> Twitter: @maor_x
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