What exactly has the English Wikipedia accepted? As far as I know we don't
known on what the WMF thinks they failed. It is just speculation and
personal opinions.
Paulo
A quinta, 4 de jul de 2019, 10:11, Gerard Meijssen <
gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> escreveu:
Hoi,
I am astounded that you write as if the WMF is at fault in this. What I
find is that in stead of pointing to the WMF, it is first and foremost the
community of the English Wikipedia who accepted the unacceptable and
finally has to deal with consequences. True to form, no reflection on en.wp
practices and the blame is conveniently put elsewhere.
Thanks,
GerardM
On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 at 10:48, Peter Southwood <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net
wrote:
> Gerard,
> Is your response to my email intended to have any relevance to my
> statement? If so please clarify.
> Cheers,
> Peter
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Gerard Meijssen
> Sent: 04 July 2019 09:59
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block
> Hoi,
> The community is responsible for its actions. It is widely acknowledged
> that the English Wikipedia is a toxic environment. The community has not
> taken this on board, has not fixed the damage. At some stage an
inflection
> point exists where the community if forced to reflect. Sadly, the English
> Wikipedia has proven to be unable to get its house in order nor does it
> show reflection that give hope for a better future.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
> On Thu, 4 Jul 2019 at 09:32, Peter
Southwood <
peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net
>
> wrote:
> > The board does not manage WMF.
It is not their fault when a department
> > does something stupid if they had no warning that it was likely to
> happen.
> > People who signed off on the ban decision may have reason to apologise,
> > others not. The board is responsible for ensuring that the damage is
> fixed
> > and taking reasonably practicable precautions for preventing a
> recurrence.
> > Due diligence is their duty, not exhaustive diligence or
micromanagement.
> > Cheers, Peter
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > Behalf Of Pine W
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 10:29 PM
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block
>
> > Hello Wikimedia-l
colleagues,
>
> > I hope that your day is
going well.
>
> > There are some updates
regarding the topics that we are discussing in
> this
> > thread. I am writing this email in a personal capacity.
>
> > As a reminder, the English
Wikipedia Arbitration Committee published an
> > open letter on 30 June that was directed to the WMF Board
> > <
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Community_response_to_…
> > >.
> > I will share a few quotes from that statement before providing some
> > updates, and finally making some personal comments.
>
> > I am retaining the font
styles that Arbcom used in its letter.
>
> > * "As of 30 June, two
bureaucrats, 18 administrators, an ArbCom clerk,
> and
> > a number of other editors have resigned their positions and/or retired
> from
> > Wikipedia editing in relation to this issue."
>
> > * "If Fram’s ban—an
unappealable sanction issued from above with no
> > community consultation—represents the WMF’s new strategy for dealing
with
> > harassment on the English Wikipedia, it is one that is fundamentally
> > misaligned with the Wikimedia movement’s principles of openness,
> consensus,
> > and self-governance."
>
> > * "*We ask that the
WMF commits to leaving behavioural complaints
> > pertaining solely to the English Wikipedia to established local
> processes.*
> > Those unsuitable for public discussion should be referred to the
> > Arbitration Committee. We will solicit comment from the community and
the
> WMF to develop clear procedures for dealing
with confidential
allegations
of
harassment, based on the existing provision for private hearings in
the
> arbitration policy. Complaints that can be discussed publicly should be
> referred to an appropriate community dispute resolution process. If the
> Trust & Safety team seeks to assume responsibility for these cases,
they
> > should do so by proposing an amendment to the arbitration policy, or an
> > equivalent process of community consensus-building. Otherwise, we would
> > appreciate the WMF’s continued support in improving our response to
> > harassment and hostility on the English Wikipedia
>
> > * "We feel strongly
that this commitment is necessary for the
Arbitration
> Committee to continue to perform the role it
is assigned by the English
> Wikipedia community. If we are unable to find a satisfactory
resolution,
> at
> > least four members of the committee have expressed the intention to
> > resign."
>
> > The following are more
recent updates.
>
> > * The WMF Board has made a
statement
> > <
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Community_response_to_…
> >
>
> > * The WMF Executive Director (Katherine Maher) has also
made a
statement
> > <
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Katherine_(WMF)&di…
> >
> > .
>
> > My personal comments
follow.
>
> > I appreciate the WMF
Executive Director's statement. I think that her
> > statement is a good starting point for further communications between
the
> > staff and the community, particularly the English Wikipedia community.
>
> > I was hoping for a
statement from the WMF Board that was humble and
> > apologetic regarding recent disruption that has stressed many people in
> the
> > community, led to numerous resignations, and consumed countless hours
of
> > volunteers' valuable time. Perhaps I overlooked them, but I do not see
> the
> > words "apology", "sorry", "regret", or similar
words in the statement
> from
> > the WMF Board.
>
> > In addition to an apology,
I was hoping to see the WMF Board focus on
> > supervising the WMF organization, which I think is its principal job.
>
> > I feel that this statement
is condescending: "We believe that the
> > communities should be able to deal with these types of situations and
> > should take this as a wake-up call to improve our enforcement processes
> to
> > deal with so-called "unblockables"." I think that many of us in
the
> > communities are aware of these problems. I do not appreciate WMF
creating
> > unnecessary and widely harmful disruption in its quest to do top-down
> > social engineering. I encourage the WMF Board to develop humility,
> refrain
> > from lecturing the communities, and consider how to support the
> communities
> > in our efforts to improve ourselves.
>
> > I would encourage the WMF
Board to ponder the harms that have resulted
> from
> > WMF's actions. I hope that we see a public apology from the WMF Board.
>
> > Katherine, thank you for
your willingness to have a dialogue regarding
> > these matters, and your willingness to have a more cautious and
> respectful
> > approach in the future.
>
> > Writing solely in a
personal capacity,
>
> > Pine
> > (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > _______________________________________________
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