Re: [Foundation-l] foundation-l Digest, Vol 72, Issue 29

What's my username and password? Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -----Original Message----- From: foundation-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:42:20 To: &lt;foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; Subject: foundation-l Digest, Vol 72, Issue 29 Send foundation-l mailing list submissions to foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to foundation-l-request(a)lists.wikimedia.org You can reach the person managing the list at foundation-l-owner(a)lists.wikimedia.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of foundation-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Internet nominated for Nobel Peace Prize (Tim Starling) 2. Re: Internet nominated for Nobel Peace Prize (Marc Riddell) 3. Re: Internet nominated for Nobel Peace Prize (Brian J Mingus) 4. Re: Internet nominated for Nobel Peace Prize (Michael Snow) 5. Re: Internet nominated for Nobel Peace Prize (Brian J Mingus) 6. Re: Internet nominated for Nobel Peace Prize (Marc Riddell) 7. Re: Internet nominated for Nobel Peace Prize (Michael Snow) 8. Re: Internet nominated for Nobel Peace Prize (Brian J Mingus) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:10:25 -0800 From: Tim Starling &lt;tstarling(a)wikimedia.org&gt; Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Internet nominated for Nobel Peace Prize To: foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: &lt;hnb862$ho6$1(a)dough.gmane.org&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Amir E. Aharoni wrote: popularizer Give the Nobel Peace Prize to DARPA for designing the Internet. And they've made so many other excellent contributions to peace, like unmanned bombers and anti-missile lasers. Seriously, the only reason I can think of that the committee would choose "the internet" as a recipient is if they wanted to make an even more bizarre choice than last year. -- Tim Starling ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 12:45:05 -0500 From: Marc Riddell &lt;michaeldavid86(a)comcast.net&gt; Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Internet nominated for Nobel Peace Prize To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List &lt;foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; Message-ID: <C7BE9651.1C5EF%michaeldavid86@comcast.net<C7BE9651.1C5EF%25michaeldavid86@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Seriously, the only reason I can think of that the committee would > choose "the internet" as a recipient is if they wanted to make an even > more bizarre choice than last year. > -- Tim Starling "Bizarre"? See beyond the visible, Tim. Marc Riddell ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:45:16 -0700 From: Brian J Mingus &lt;Brian.Mingus(a)Colorado.EDU&gt; Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Internet nominated for Nobel Peace Prize To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List &lt;foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; Message-ID: &lt;9839a05c1003110945w28665a14hc542ef2c03e60d07(a)mail.gmail.com&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Tim Starling &lt;tstarling(a)wikimedia.org Brian.Mingus(a)colorado.edu > > > >> On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Thomas Dalton < thomas.dalton(a)gmail.com Google, > >> for > >> example, is a major force for peace. In fact it is the biggest > popularizer > >> of Wikimedia content. > >> > >> > > Yes, but Google doesn't really need the prize money. > > > Although giving it all to Wikimedia is probably not quite right either. > Give the Nobel Peace Prize to DARPA for designing the Internet. And > they've made so many other excellent contributions to peace, like > unmanned bombers and anti-missile lasers. > Seriously, the only reason I can think of that the committee would > choose "the internet" as a recipient is if they wanted to make an even > more bizarre choice than last year. > -- Tim Starling I'm actually not sure how unmanned bombers are not a tool for peace given our current situation. As Obama noted very eloquently in his Nobel acceptance speech even though we may dream of world peace it is not yet a reality. The reality is that we have rogue regimes, unstable international relationships, religious wars, insane people who manage to get elected as POTUS, etc... Given that we must put men and women in harms way and we must drop bombs it makes sense to do so in the most responsible way possible. These unmanned bombers are a step in the right direction. Similarly for anti-missile lasers. Supposing a hostile nation lobs an ICBM in our direction if we are capable of zapping it out of the sky then we can avoid war entirely. It means that we will not have to retaliate with a counter-ICBM. How is that not for peace? How can you disparage these technologies with tongue in cheek? A world without them would be utopia for sure. We do not live in utopia. Speaking as someone who has been funded by DARPA (I am now funded by [[IARPA]]) and whose research cannot be used for war I can say that not everything they do deserves to be described with insidious undertones. Much of what DARPA invests in has no practical application within any reasonable time frame. Furthermore I would note that the D is for Defense, and Defense does not just mean developing new weapons. More and more defense for us means stopping a threat in its early development so that nobody gets hurt. Lastly I will note two reasons that the Internet should have been nominated (not that it will necessarily win - it is against > 200 other nominees!) - Free access to the sum of all human knowledge for those who have it. That's 25% of the world and a recent survey showed that > 80% believe that everyone deserves access to the Internet as a fundamental right, including 70% of those who aren't even connected yet. - Secondly, the Internet for Peace Manifesto ( http://www.internetforpeace.org/uploads/manifesto/manifesto_english.zip ): We have finally realized that the Internet is much more than a network of > computers. It is an endless web of people. > Men and women from every corner of the globe are connecting to one another > thanks to the biggest social interface ever known to humanity. > Digital culture has laid the foundations for a new kind of society. And > this society is advancing dialogue, debate and consensus through > communication. > Because democracy has always flourished where there is openness, > acceptance, discussion and participation. And contact with others has always > been the most effective antidote against hatred and conflict. > That's why the Internet is a tool for peace. > That's why anyone who uses it can sow the seeds of non-violence. > And that's why the next Nobel Peace Prize should go to the Net. > A Nobel for each and every once of us. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:03:37 -0800 From: Michael Snow &lt;wikipedia(a)verizon.net&gt; Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Internet nominated for Nobel Peace Prize To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List &lt;foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; Message-ID: &lt;4B993079.6010303(a)verizon.net&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Brian J Mingus wrote: > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Tim Starling &lt;tstarling(a)wikimedia.org >> Give the Nobel Peace Prize to DARPA for designing the Internet. And >> they've made so many other excellent contributions to peace, like >> unmanned bombers and anti-missile lasers. >> >> Seriously, the only reason I can think of that the committee would >> choose "the internet" as a recipient is if they wanted to make an even >> more bizarre choice than last year. >> >> -- Tim Starling >> > I'm actually not sure how unmanned bombers are not a tool for peace given > our current situation. As Obama noted very eloquently in his Nobel > acceptance speech even though we may dream of world peace it is not yet a > reality. The reality is that we have rogue regimes, unstable international Can we discuss something else, rather than having the list get sidetracked into geopolitical debates that aren't at all useful to the work we do? Aside from fantasizing about a share of the prize money, even the original subject was not especially on-topic for discussion here. Thank you. --Michael Snow ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:07:17 -0700 From: Brian J Mingus &lt;Brian.Mingus(a)Colorado.EDU&gt; Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Internet nominated for Nobel Peace Prize To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List &lt;foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; Message-ID: &lt;9839a05c1003111007o5c636565l464f147d61e018da(a)mail.gmail.com&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Michael Snow &lt;wikipedia(a)verizon.net tstarling(a)wikimedia.org > > > >> Give the Nobel Peace Prize to DARPA for designing the Internet. And > >> they've made so many other excellent contributions to peace, like > >> unmanned bombers and anti-missile lasers. > >> > >> Seriously, the only reason I can think of that the committee would > >> choose "the internet" as a recipient is if they wanted to make an even > >> more bizarre choice than last year. > >> > >> -- Tim Starling > >> > > I'm actually not sure how unmanned bombers are not a tool for peace given a as > > POTUS, etc... > Can we discuss something else, rather than having the list get > sidetracked into geopolitical debates that aren't at all useful to the > work we do? Aside from fantasizing about a share of the prize money, > even the original subject was not especially on-topic for discussion > here. Thank you. > --Michael Snow Yes, hardly anything is relevant for discussion on this list anymore. It happens either on internal WMF mailing lists or IRL. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 13:18:30 -0500 From: Marc Riddell &lt;michaeldavid86(a)comcast.net&gt; Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Internet nominated for Nobel Peace Prize To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List &lt;foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; Message-ID: <C7BE9E26.1C5F6%michaeldavid86@comcast.net<C7BE9E26.1C5F6%25michaeldavid86@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" given a international as on 3/11/10 1:03 PM, Michael Snow at wikipedia(a)verizon.net wrote: > Can we discuss something else, rather than having the list get > sidetracked into geopolitical debates that aren't at all useful to the > work we do? Aside from fantasizing about a share of the prize money, > even the original subject was not especially on-topic for discussion > here. Thank you. > --Michael Snow "Sidetracked" from what? And, how does this discussion interfere with your work, or your day, Michael? MR ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:20:38 -0800 From: Michael Snow &lt;wikipedia(a)verizon.net&gt; Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Internet nominated for Nobel Peace Prize To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List &lt;foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; Message-ID: &lt;4B993476.5020908(a)verizon.net&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Brian J Mingus wrote: > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Michael Snow &lt;wikipedia(a)verizon.net >> Brian J Mingus wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Tim Starling < tstarling(a)wikimedia.org given a as >>> POTUS, etc... >>> >> Can we discuss something else, rather than having the list get >> sidetracked into geopolitical debates that aren't at all useful to the >> work we do? Aside from fantasizing about a share of the prize money, >> even the original subject was not especially on-topic for discussion >> here. Thank you. >> >> --Michael Snow >> > Yes, hardly anything is relevant for discussion on this list anymore. It > happens either on internal WMF mailing lists or IRL. It's not that those discussions wouldn't be relevant to have on this list, and periodically people try and encourage others to move them to a more public setting. It's that when this list continues to show a tendency for conversation to degenerate, as it just did, then it's quite hard to persuade people that they should want to have their discussions here. --Michael Snow ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:41:53 -0700 From: Brian J Mingus &lt;Brian.Mingus(a)Colorado.EDU&gt; Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Internet nominated for Nobel Peace Prize To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List &lt;foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org&gt; Message-ID: &lt;9839a05c1003111041t41a95d49r235f6f6a97195997(a)mail.gmail.com&gt; Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:20 AM, Michael Snow &lt;wikipedia(a)verizon.net > Brian J Mingus wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Michael Snow &lt;wikipedia(a)verizon.net > > > >> Brian J Mingus wrote: > >> > >>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Tim Starling < > tstarling(a)wikimedia.org > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Give the Nobel Peace Prize to DARPA for designing the Internet. And > >>>> they've made so many other excellent contributions to peace, like > >>>> unmanned bombers and anti-missile lasers. > >>>> > >>>> Seriously, the only reason I can think of that the committee would > >>>> choose "the internet" as a recipient is if they wanted to make an even yet elected It > > happens either on internal WMF mailing lists or IRL. > > It's not that those discussions wouldn't be relevant to have on this > list, and periodically people try and encourage others to move them to a > more public setting. It's that when this list continues to show a > tendency for conversation to degenerate, as it just did, then it's quite > hard to persuade people that they should want to have their discussions > here. > --Michael Snow You believe that my reply to Tim is degenerate? That is offensive. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l End of foundation-l Digest, Vol 72, Issue 29 ******************************************** _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l