Barry, answers will be in line (as a side notice: I will start love when
someone says something bad about WMF if that is the only way that we can
actually see they posting mails).
*So there are some technical issues that we were dealing with regarding the
So, I helped AroundTheGlobe to write the grant, I'm in GAC and thefore I
need to review the grant. I'm also an "honorary" organizer of WCI, so I
actually know a lot about this grant and all the things around it - and
that is why I mention it.
*Also, I think it is a mistake to say that the conference is the product of
a WMF initiative or is being controlled by WMF. The
conference was and is a
community initiative with lots of participation.
*
I don't know where you read in my mail that "the conference is product of a
WMF initiative". I never said that.
*We provided a small stipend to help once it was clear that the logistical
activities required full time resources.** WMF or the
trust as not run
the conference...we have provided funds to enable it.*
So let me do a little comparison to see if you get my (in fact Anirudh's)
point: If WMIN decide to fund thenselves in 2012 Fundraising, WMF will
provide people to "a small stipend help" them with the full time employee
necessary to run a decent fundraising?
*The grant does actually help to put some building blocks in place such as
legal needs don't actually imply a full time lawyer or accountant to WMIN
(I also review this grant and made that exactly
future...since the grant process remains open as do
communication lines
with WMF and the community.
*
Again, no one said they can't. The only thing we said was that WIPT receive
money directly WITHOUT a grant, with give them an advantage.
*There have been three consultant hires in India to date - Hisham, Nitika
and Shiju. As mentioned in the past, the team is
expected to be 5 people.
*
Well, I saw at least 4 hiring in the mailing list, so Hisham might have
someone else working for him. I can go look into archives, but I'm pretty
sure Indian operations are bigger than this.
_____
*Béria Lima*
<http://wikimedia.pt/>(351) 925 171 484
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
construir esse sonho. <http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>*
On 11 November 2011 18:58, Barry Newstead <bnewstead(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
A couple of clarifications:
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Béria Lima <berialima(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Disclaimer: I'm not Indian, and I don't
know much about the Indian
operations, but I needed to answer about something I do know.
*Anirudh said: WMIN and WIPT will theoretically compete for funding
within
India, much of which will be allocated to WIPT, given
that it is
professionalized (and because we never had a chance) and in WMF's good
graces.*
*And Bishakha answered: As I understand it, WMIN has received a grant
from WMF, so I can't understand how it "never had a chance".** *
Ok talking about grants: WMIN has so far 2 grants: a Bootstrap
Grant<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:WM_IN/Bootstrap_Grant>and
a grant for WCI
2011 <
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:WM_IN/WikiConference_India_2011
(since
this
grant<
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:WM_IN/Wiki_Community_development_in_I…
state
in the begin that is not a chapter grant, despite the fact that has
the WMIN in the title). One is for a ver specif thing - a conference -
who
is being leading by 2 "fellows" of WMF.
So there are some technical issues that we were dealing with regarding the
funding of the conference that did not enable it to be a grant. Also, I
think it is a mistake to say that the conference is the product of a WMF
initiative or is being controlled by WMF. The conference was and is a
community initiative with lots of participation. We provided a small
stipend to help once it was clear that the logistical activities required
full time resources. WMF or the trust as not run the conference...we have
provided funds to enable it.
The second one has nothing to do
with professionalization.
The grant does actually help to put some building blocks in place such as
supporting accounting and legal needs. Also, nothing stopping the chapter
from building further in the future...since the grant process remains open
as do communication lines with WMF and the community.
So when comes to funding, if they decide to
collect funds locally, would be incredible difficult to "fight against"
the
WIPT who is full of employees[1] who are used to
work with that for
years.
That was - I believe - Anirudh's point.
As I said, there is no reason to "fight against" anyone. For example,
Hisham, Gautam and others all worked to find sponsorships for the
Wikiconference India. It was a collaborative effort, not a competition.
Funding should and will flow to program work in various places. In some
cases, donors may be more comfortable giving to one org or another...so it
may actually be an asset to have more than one alternative.
[1] I'm in WMIN ML and I see a hiring once per month, sometimes more.
There have been three consultant hires in India to date - Hisham, Nitika
and Shiju. As mentioned in the past, the team is expected to be 5 people.
_____
*Béria Lima*
<http://wikimedia.pt/>(351) 925 171 484
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
construir esse sonho. <http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>*
Best,
Barry
On 11 November 2011 17:34, Bishakha Datta <bishakhadatta(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Anirudh Bhati
<anirudhsbh(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> The initial idea, if I understood it correctly, was to establish
another
> > non-profit body within India, for a period of three to five years to
> > execute specific (and large-scale) programmes. As of now, the WIPT
> > (Wikimedia India Program Office) can pretty much do anything it wants
> with
> > the Wikimedia brand - partner with institutions, raise money locally,
> have
> > paid employees and bypass community.
>
>
> From what I have seen, the program office does not behave like a law
unto
> itself, as implied above.
>
>
> > This is what I foresee happening:
> > WMIN will be involved in community-building and small-scale projects
> which
> > support volunteers and the WIPT will partner with large institutions
in
> > India (who are understandably looking
to club with international
> > organizations), get a lot of media coverage and acquire the big
grants
> > (since WMIN is not a professional
body).
>
>
> WMIN has already had interest from and meetings with other donors,
> including pretty big ones in India (I was there at one such in 2010),
so
why this
feeling that WMIN can't acquire the big grants?
WMIN and WIPT will theoretically
compete for funding within India, much of which will be allocated to
WIPT,
> given that it is professionalized (and because we never had a chance)
and
> > in WMF's good graces.
>
>
> As I understand it, WMIN has received a grant from WMF, so I can't
> understand how it "never had a chance".
>
>
> > This is how WMIN has been made redundant (something
> > that I have been saying for a long, long time).
> >
> > I really don't get this. Given that India is a huge country - with
more
> than 1 billion people - and zillions of
opportunities to grow editing
> communities in different languages, how can WMIN become or be made
> redundant? Also, given that the chapter is less than a year old, and
has
> some new office-bearers, and has announced
new plans for moving
forward,
> how is it redundant?
>
> My personal view is that there is enough work ahead for not just one,
or
> two, but numerous entities, formal and
informal, to enter the fray and
> actualize this potential. Already, there are many more requests for
> collaboration within India than either WMIN or WIPT or both put
together
can
handle.
Given this huge potential, I don't see why this discussion has to be
framed
through the lens of competition or
territoriality.
Cheers
Bishakha
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Barry Newstead
Chief Global Development Officer
Wikimedia Foundation
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