Barry, answers will be in line (as a side notice: I will start love when someone says something bad about WMF if that is the only way that we can actually see they posting mails).
*So there are some technical issues that we were dealing with regarding the
funding of the conference that did not enable it to be a grant.
So, I helped AroundTheGlobe to write the grant, I'm in GAC and thefore I need to review the grant. I'm also an "honorary" organizer of WCI, so I actually know a lot about this grant and all the things around it - and that is why I mention it.
*Also, I think it is a mistake to say that the conference is the product of
a WMF initiative or is being controlled by WMF. The conference was and is a community initiative with lots of participation.
I don't know where you read in my mail that "the conference is product of a WMF initiative". I never said that.
*We provided a small stipend to help once it was clear that the logistical
activities required full time resources.** WMF or the trust as not run the conference...we have provided funds to enable it.*
So let me do a little comparison to see if you get my (in fact Anirudh's) point: If WMIN decide to fund thenselves in 2012 Fundraising, WMF will provide people to "a small stipend help" them with the full time employee necessary to run a decent fundraising?
*The grant does actually help to put some building blocks in place such as
supporting accounting and legal needs.
legal needs don't actually imply a full time lawyer or accountant to WMIN (I also review this grant and made that exactly questionhttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:WM_IN/Bootstrap_Grant#Operating_Expenses )
*Also, nothing stopping the chapter from building further in the
future...since the grant process remains open as do communication lines with WMF and the community.
Again, no one said they can't. The only thing we said was that WIPT receive money directly WITHOUT a grant, with give them an advantage.
*There have been three consultant hires in India to date - Hisham, Nitika
and Shiju. As mentioned in the past, the team is expected to be 5 people.
Well, I saw at least 4 hiring in the mailing list, so Hisham might have someone else working for him. I can go look into archives, but I'm pretty sure Indian operations are bigger than this. _____ *Béria Lima* http://wikimedia.pt/(351) 925 171 484
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 11 November 2011 18:58, Barry Newstead bnewstead@wikimedia.org wrote:
A couple of clarifications:
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Béria Lima berialima@gmail.com wrote:
Disclaimer: I'm not Indian, and I don't know much about the Indian operations, but I needed to answer about something I do know.
*Anirudh said: WMIN and WIPT will theoretically compete for funding
within
India, much of which will be allocated to WIPT, given that it is professionalized (and because we never had a chance) and in WMF's good graces.*
*And Bishakha answered: As I understand it, WMIN has received a grant from WMF, so I can't understand how it "never had a chance".** *
Ok talking about grants: WMIN has so far 2 grants: a Bootstrap Granthttp://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:WM_IN/Bootstrap_Grantand a grant for WCI 2011 < http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:WM_IN/WikiConference_India_2011
(since
this grant<
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:WM_IN/Wiki_Community_development_in_In...
state
in the begin that is not a chapter grant, despite the fact that has the WMIN in the title). One is for a ver specif thing - a conference -
who
is being leading by 2 "fellows" of WMF.
So there are some technical issues that we were dealing with regarding the funding of the conference that did not enable it to be a grant. Also, I think it is a mistake to say that the conference is the product of a WMF initiative or is being controlled by WMF. The conference was and is a community initiative with lots of participation. We provided a small stipend to help once it was clear that the logistical activities required full time resources. WMF or the trust as not run the conference...we have provided funds to enable it.
The second one has nothing to do with professionalization.
The grant does actually help to put some building blocks in place such as supporting accounting and legal needs. Also, nothing stopping the chapter from building further in the future...since the grant process remains open as do communication lines with WMF and the community.
So when comes to funding, if they decide to collect funds locally, would be incredible difficult to "fight against"
the
WIPT who is full of employees[1] who are used to work with that for
years.
That was - I believe - Anirudh's point.
As I said, there is no reason to "fight against" anyone. For example, Hisham, Gautam and others all worked to find sponsorships for the Wikiconference India. It was a collaborative effort, not a competition. Funding should and will flow to program work in various places. In some cases, donors may be more comfortable giving to one org or another...so it may actually be an asset to have more than one alternative.
[1] I'm in WMIN ML and I see a hiring once per month, sometimes more.
There have been three consultant hires in India to date - Hisham, Nitika and Shiju. As mentioned in the past, the team is expected to be 5 people.
*Béria Lima* http://wikimedia.pt/(351) 925 171 484
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
Best,
Barry
On 11 November 2011 17:34, Bishakha Datta bishakhadatta@gmail.com
wrote:
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Anirudh Bhati anirudhsbh@gmail.com wrote:
The initial idea, if I understood it correctly, was to establish
another
non-profit body within India, for a period of three to five years to execute specific (and large-scale) programmes. As of now, the WIPT (Wikimedia India Program Office) can pretty much do anything it wants
with
the Wikimedia brand - partner with institutions, raise money locally,
have
paid employees and bypass community.
From what I have seen, the program office does not behave like a law
unto
itself, as implied above.
This is what I foresee happening: WMIN will be involved in community-building and small-scale projects
which
support volunteers and the WIPT will partner with large institutions
in
India (who are understandably looking to club with international organizations), get a lot of media coverage and acquire the big
grants
(since WMIN is not a professional body).
WMIN has already had interest from and meetings with other donors, including pretty big ones in India (I was there at one such in 2010),
so
why this feeling that WMIN can't acquire the big grants?
WMIN and WIPT will theoretically compete for funding within India, much of which will be allocated to
WIPT,
given that it is professionalized (and because we never had a chance)
and
in WMF's good graces.
As I understand it, WMIN has received a grant from WMF, so I can't understand how it "never had a chance".
This is how WMIN has been made redundant (something that I have been saying for a long, long time).
I really don't get this. Given that India is a huge country - with
more
than 1 billion people - and zillions of opportunities to grow editing communities in different languages, how can WMIN become or be made redundant? Also, given that the chapter is less than a year old, and
has
some new office-bearers, and has announced new plans for moving
forward,
how is it redundant?
My personal view is that there is enough work ahead for not just one,
or
two, but numerous entities, formal and informal, to enter the fray and actualize this potential. Already, there are many more requests for collaboration within India than either WMIN or WIPT or both put
together
can handle.
Given this huge potential, I don't see why this discussion has to be
framed
through the lens of competition or territoriality.
Cheers Bishakha _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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