Hello Moushira,
Iḿ sorry i didn't say this explicitely , i was n persoanlly attacking you i was as you point out focussing the critic at jargon use in the WMF
thanks derek
On 16-03-16 17:58, Richard Symonds wrote:
Thanks Moushira :-) On 16 Mar 2016 16:55, "Moushira Elamrawy" melamrawy@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello again,
I see that we have an interesting input here.
Let me add further context, not to give any excuses but to put things in their perspective. This has nothing do to with corporate or jargon Silicon Valley culture, as I simply don't live in the US, and I don't have any corporate background :). I come from a design background, and while I am not a native English speaker, I didn't encounter any previous misunderstanding with using this word, in context, in the last decade, even with other non-native speakers.
I now see the relevance of psychology in the use of the word "ideation" (where regardless of the article quality, we have the word used in both context < https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Ideation_%2...
still)
. Given my non-medical background, and my previous use of the word, without failing to deliver what I needed to express at any point earlier, I, therefore, made a choice to include it in my email, which I wrote by myself without peer review.
I see the point around the Foundation's seemingly repeated pattern of using words (or abbreviation) that aren't widely understood outside their context, or by a broader audience. While this is a valid concern, I just wanted to point out that our case here, is a matter of me failing to choose a term that isn't apparently jargon, because sometimes it is tricky to decide.
Again, this is a good lesson on the importance of simplifying and globalizing my choice of words (oh, globalize could be jargon..no, not again ;).
Point taken, thanks again everyone.
Moushira
On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Oliver Keyes ironholds@gmail.com wrote:
While I agree with people that it's an uncommon and exclusionary phrase (and a confusing one!) it seems like Moushira fully acknowledges this and is going to work harder on this sort of problem in the future, for which I laud her.
If we want to have a general conversation about language choice at the WMF, broadly-construed, it seems like it would be best to kick off a new thread to avoid the appearance of a pileon.
On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Derek V.Giroulle derekvgiroulle@wikimedia.be wrote:
Hello everyone ,
I agree with Fae and Craig, It's foreign jargon especially in this context , and on top of that
jargon
form a professional background where the term has been misused (imho) It has in my jargon the connotation of obsessively recurring idea ,
like
a
depressed patient always coming back to ideas of suicide : the suicidal ideation It would be the only place where i would allow fosuch reductive jargon because it has precise meaning i wouls never associate it with idea generation or brainstorming what
is
wrong with using those words as craig indicated : cringe worthy (business) jargon the mere fact that product design (business ing general) is stealing a
word
form other jargon show a lack of creativity of innovation
I would like to call on the communications dept to start - and i can
just
picture someone for that task - a campaign at WMF to ban jargon "simply says it better"
derek
On 16-03-16 04:39, Craig Franklin wrote:
Hi Moushira,
The problem when you use jargon like "ideation" in this context is
that
you're essentially excluding anyone who isn't familiar with the
particular
terminology used in the field. Especially so when there are plenty of plain-English alternatives that can be used in its place. Note that
there
is a whole bunch of thought from experts that that word in particular
is a
particularly obnoxious piece of jargon:
http://www.lifed.com/10-cringeworthy-business-jargon-examples-that-should-be...
It's hardly the worst example I've seen out of the WMF, but while
we're
on
the topic it should be pointed out. Just because it's used elsewhere,
it
doesn't mean that the WMF has to fall into the same trap.
Cheers, Craig
On 16 March 2016 at 10:07, Moushira Elamrawy <melamrawy@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello Fae,
Ideation phase [0], is a term widely used in product and design
context.
Now, I see your point around how volunteers who are not related to
these
fields, might not be familiar with it. Possibly something like, idea generation, or brainstorming could have replaced it.
I am not sure though if the factors that you have listed are
relevant;
I
think it is a matter of using a word in a certain context where it actually fits, without realizing how a broader audience would perceive it.
In any case, thanks for the note :-)
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideation_%28creative_process%29
Moushira
On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 1:51 AM, Fæ faewik@gmail.com wrote:
> On 15 March 2016 at 22:33, Moushira Elamrawy <
melamrawy@wikimedia.org
> wrote: > ... >> The reading team is launching an experiment that supports early > engagement >> in ideation phase, with a wide variety of users. > ... > > Hi, sorry to target your email with a more general observation, > however there seems to be a lot of odd jargon in Wikimedia > announcements over the last few months. It would be great to see
more
> 'official' emails aimed at volunteers, written in plain and > grammatically complete English. Phrases like "ideation phase" may be > frequently used during meetings at the Wikimedia Foundation offices, > but are unlikely to be heard in real life by volunteer contributors, > and are unlikely to be easily understood outside of corporate
America,
> especially by those without English as their first language. > > Sorry again about picking at your announcement rather than any
other,
> it just stood out today. > > Thanks, > Fae > -- > faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
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?subject=unsubscribe>
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