On 15 March 2016 at 22:33, Moushira Elamrawy &lt;melamrawy(a)wikimedia.org&gt; wrote: ... engagement ... Hi, sorry to target your email with a more general observation, however there seems to be a lot of odd jargon in Wikimedia announcements over the last few months. It would be great to see more 'official' emails aimed at volunteers, written in plain and grammatically complete English. Phrases like "ideation phase" may be frequently used during meetings at the Wikimedia Foundation offices, but are unlikely to be heard in real life by volunteer contributors, and are unlikely to be easily understood outside of corporate America, especially by those without English as their first language. Sorry again about picking at your announcement rather than any other, it just stood out today. Thanks, Fae -- faewik(a)gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Hi Moushira, The problem when you use jargon like "ideation" in this context is that you're essentially excluding anyone who isn't familiar with the particular terminology used in the field. Especially so when there are plenty of plain-English alternatives that can be used in its place. Note that there is a whole bunch of thought from experts that that word in particular is a particularly obnoxious piece of jargon: * http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/26/pf/corporate-jargon/ * https://hbr.org/2008/08/why-jargon-feeds-on-lazy-minds.html * http://www.lifed.com/10-cringeworthy-business-jargon-examples-that-should-b… It's hardly the worst example I've seen out of the WMF, but while we're on the topic it should be pointed out. Just because it's used elsewhere, it doesn't mean that the WMF has to fall into the same trap. Cheers, Craig On 16 March 2016 at 10:07, Moushira Elamrawy &lt;melamrawy(a)wikimedia.org&gt; wrote: actually _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Hello everyone , I agree with Fae and Craig, It's foreign jargon especially in this context , and on top of that jargon form a professional background where the term has been misused (imho) It has in my jargon the connotation of obsessively recurring idea , like a depressed patient always coming back to ideas of suicide : the suicidal ideation It would be the only place where i would allow fosuch reductive jargon because it has precise meaning i wouls never associate it with idea generation or brainstorming what is wrong with using those words as craig indicated : cringe worthy (business) jargon the mere fact that product design (business ing general) is stealing a word form other jargon show a lack of creativity of innovation I would like to call on the communications dept to start - and i can just picture someone for that task - a campaign at WMF to ban jargon "simply says it better" derek On 16-03-16 04:39, Craig Franklin wrote: -- Kind regards, *Derek V. Giroulle* Wikimedia Belgium vzw. Treasurer Troonstraat 51 Rue du Trône, BE-1050 Brussels M: derekvgiroulle(a)wikimedia.be T: +32 494 134134 F: +32 3666 2700 _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Hello again, I see that we have an interesting input here. Let me add further context, not to give any excuses but to put things in their perspective. This has nothing do to with corporate or jargon Silicon Valley culture, as I simply don't live in the US, and I don't have any corporate background :). I come from a design background, and while I am not a native English speaker, I didn't encounter any previous misunderstanding with using this word, in context, in the last decade, even with other non-native speakers. I now see the relevance of psychology in the use of the word "ideation" (where regardless of the article quality, we have the word used in both context < https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Ideation_%… . Given my non-medical background, and my previous use of the word, without failing to deliver what I needed to express at any point earlier, I, therefore, made a choice to include it in my email, which I wrote by myself without peer review. I see the point around the Foundation's seemingly repeated pattern of using words (or abbreviation) that aren't widely understood outside their context, or by a broader audience. While this is a valid concern, I just wanted to point out that our case here, is a matter of me failing to choose a term that isn't apparently jargon, because sometimes it is tricky to decide. Again, this is a good lesson on the importance of simplifying and globalizing my choice of words (oh, globalize could be jargon..no, not again ;). Point taken, thanks again everyone. Moushira On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Oliver Keyes &lt;ironholds(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: like is that http://www.lifed.com/10-cringeworthy-business-jargon-examples-that-should-b… we're relevant; melamrawy(a)wikimedia.org more America, other, https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ?subject=unsubscribe> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, , _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Hello Fae, Ideation phase [0], is a term widely used in product and design context. Now, I see your point around how volunteers who are not related to these fields, might not be familiar with it. Possibly something like, idea generation, or brainstorming could have replaced it. I am not sure though if the factors that you have listed are relevant; I think it is a matter of using a word in a certain context where it

fits, without realizing how a broader audience would perceive it. In any case, thanks for the note :-) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideation_%28creative_process%29