I like the idea, but have no clue as to how practicable it would be.
Cheers,
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of John
Erling Blad
Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 12:36 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation
We do need better tools to curate the existing articles, but that is not a blocker for new
ways to create and edit articles.
For example, what if we could simply select a sentence, create a query on some search
engine, and then have an ai-bot crawl the result to see if one of the hits can be used as
a source? Turned around, the ai-bot could check the sentences in an article and flag those
it can't verify, thus guiding the editor to back those sentences with references. That
would off-load the bulk of the work on sourcing articles.
Just an idea.
On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 6:49 PM, Renée Bagslint <reneebagslint(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Does it make sense to have more articles in a language
than can be
curated by the volunteers who speak that language? This has already
happened on the Englisg-language Wikipedia where the five million
articles have simply overwhelmed the capability of the few thousand
active contributors to self-organise and curate -- for example, there
are about one million articles without adequate sources, and thousands
of unsourced BLP; there are copyvio cleanups that will not complete,
if ever, before 2030. An army of hand-coded bots is just about
keeping on top of vandalism. How does that scale to projects where
the number of native speaker contributors is in the dozens rather than the thousands?
On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Vi to <vituzzu.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:
(This thread is getting terribly interesting)
I generally think Wikipedia should be a strictly non interfering
observer for various aspects, language included. I fear if a wiki
tries to set a model for a language it may be a model which doesn't
represent the
reality
of that language: small wikis are often
monopolized by a few users.
That's
not a fault per se but it may introduce a
significant bias in
linguistic models used.
About one of Amir's emails I think a "small" Wikipedia edition is
sign
of a
series of situations, one of the most common of
is an endangered
language.
While planning should differentiate between
endangered and non
endangered language I think most of problems we have to face are
related to
languages
endangered at various levels.
On a more practical and less ideological note, I should note that
even though I didn't run the numbers, I strongly suspect that
translating
10,000
articles to 100 languages is considerably cheaper
than teaching 7
billion people English.
I don't why but I tend to second your suspects :p
Vito
2018-02-27 16:53 GMT+01:00 Peter Southwood
<peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net
:
If the people creating the basic encyclopaedic
terminology and
style in the language are native speakers, then it would not be a
thing imposed
from
> outside. It would be a development within the language, just like
> it
was
> with the languages that already have
encyclopaedias. The basic
> encyclopaedic terminology and style in languages that have then
> also
had
to
> be created before it existed, it just happened earlier. Living
languages
> evolve to deal with the realities of the
present. Those which
> don’t,
tend
> to die out as they become less useful.
Cheers, Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
> On Behalf Of Vi to
> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:43 PM
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation
>
> I see Amir's points, which are pretty reasonable, but I fear this
> would suit languages with a significant presence on the web.
>
> Among them I agree with points 1, 3 and 4 while I'm not sure about
> #2 "creating basic encyclopedic terminology and style in that
> language",
if
we
> want to preserve a language we shouldn't create a thing.
>
> By the way I was wondering my concerns about cultural colonization
> may
be
> addressed -for wikis which has some contents
(let's say at least
> 1000
> articles)- by starting expanding existing articles instead of
translating
new ones.
This would solve the problem of choosing what to
translate
though
> would leave problems about the perspective contents are created.
>
> Vito
>
> 2018-02-27 12:31 GMT+01:00 Amir E. Aharoni <
amir.aharoni(a)mail.huji.ac.il
>:
>
> > 2018-02-27 13:00 GMT+02:00 mathieu stumpf guntz <
> > psychoslave(a)culture-libre.org>gt;:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Le 24/02/2018 à 18:08, Vi to a écrit :
> > >
> > >> *finally I think paid translators would hardly turn into
> > >> stable Wikipedians.
> > >>
> > >> I think this misses an important point that is, we don't need
> > >> the
> > initial
> > > translator to turn into a sustaining editor, we need the
> > > article to
> > evolve
> > > with call to action incentives. And articles which don't exist
> > > at all – even as a stub – or don't meet an audience of
> > > potential contributors will never catch such an evolving cycle.
> >
> >
> > This is one of the issues with what I alluded to in my earlier
> > email in this thread: the privilege that the "big" languages
> > have. It's the privilege of already having other encyclopedias,
> > textbooks, public education, etc., in this language. A lot of
> > languages don't have
these
> > things. When you speak a language that
has had these things
> > before Wikipedia came along, it's hard to perceive the world
> > like a person who speaks a language that doesn't perceives it.
> >
> > If you define the purpose of paying somebody to translate as
> > "turning the paid translator" into a sustaining editor, then
> > this is indeed likely to fail.
> >
> > But if you define the purpose differently, it may succeed. For
> > example, you may define the purpose as one or more of the following:
> > * Demonstrating that it's possible to write an encyclopedia in
> > that language
> > * Creating basic encyclopedic terminology and style in that
> > language
> > * Creating a bunch of basic articles that would appear in
> > interlanguage links in Wikipedias from bigger languages
> > (English, French, etc.)
> > * Creating a bunch of basic articles that would appear in search
> > results from internet search engines
> >
> > The existence of these things may bring in people who will
> > become volunteer sustaining editors.
> >
> > --
> > Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> >
http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to
live
> > in peace.” – T. Moore
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