Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Chapter De-Recognition: Wikimedia Philippines

25 Apr 2017

      Hoi,
When individuals are discredited in this way, your option, you are judging
these people. That is in my opinion a mistake. You may judge a situation
and determine because of what you consider your responsibility to either
accept or no longer accept the existence of a chapter, whatever entity.
When you judge people and determine that you will not trust them in the
future to do good. You have a problem.
It is exactly when a group is small that your priority must be in growing
the group and the quality of their interaction. By dismissing people
totally you achieve the opposite of what we want; that is representation of
our movement in the most optimal way.
Thanks,
      GerardM
On 25 April 2017 at 18:31, Kirill Lokshin kirill.lokshin@gmail.com wrote:
...
User groups are, indeed, a more "light-weight" model of affiliation, with
significantly fewer compliance requirements -- at least for groups which
are unincorporated and do not receive significant grants -- and the
Affiliations Committee has, in the past, encouraged chapters struggling
with reporting and similar requirements to consider becoming a user group.
Having said that, there are certain issues that can prevent a smooth
transition from a chapter to a user group.  In particular, any individuals
considered to have personal responsibility for an outstanding compliance
issue -- which means, generally speaking, the actual signatories of a
chapter or grant agreement, but could potentially include every member of
the governing board in the case of an incorporated affiliate -- are not
eligible to serve as signatories of a new user group agreement until the
original compliance issue has been resolved.  This proves to be a challenge
when a group is small, or when the existing leadership of a group is
unwilling to step aside during a transition.
Regards,
Kirill Lokshin
Chair, Affiliations Committee
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 12:10 PM, James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com wrote:
...
Running a "user group" is much less bureaucratic overhead. Can WMPH not
just rejoin the movement as that? When the capacity to return to chapter
status develops the group can than apply for chapter status.
James
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 5:17 AM, Josh Lim jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com
wrote:
...
First of all, I'm not blaming anyone. I'm merely stating what is our
position: that is, that we've been dealing with our issues to the best
of
...
...
our ability.  That said, I'm sorry, but I will not tolerate being told
that
...
I am "misleading" the movement by telling people what we've done to get
ourselves out of this mess.  I wouldn't dare stake my own reputation on
misleading the movement, and for people to presume otherwise is
appalling
...
...
for a movement that claims to work on a fundamental assumption of good
faith.
It's perfectly fine that we've come to opposing conclusions as to how
compliant we are, but the facts stand that we've worked our butts off
to
...
...
return to compliance.  And we intend to do so.  If the Wikimedia
Foundation's ideal conclusion is that non-compliant affiliates ought to
disband entirely, then what good is the process in the first place if
the
...
...
idea is to help organizations return to compliance?
I'll affirm that we've received a deadline notice.  I confirmed that in
my
...
last e-mail to this list.  The Wikimedia Foundation did give a list of
things that we had to fix to return to compliance.  We ticked off a
number
...
of items from that list, and have conceded in our internal
communications
...
...
that other items can't be ticked off immediately owing to our capacity
and
...
asked for more time to that effect.  The decision that was ultimately
made
...
was for us to lose our status because not everything was met by the
deadline, and that was DESPITE everything that we've done at WMPH to
meet
...
...
the deadline to begin with.
So no, I will NOT tolerate being told that we did nothing to return to
compliance, and by no less than the chair of the Affiliations Committee
--
...
who otherwise I have a deep respect for -- in fact.  At the very least,
there has to be a concession that we tried.  I have not heard that from
the
...
other side thus far, and I'm here to make sure that people know that we
in
...
fact DID try to return to compliance.
Thanks,
Josh
(P.S.: For those asking, PhilWiki is not affiliated with WMPH.
PhilWiki
...
...
is a splinter group that was founded by a former member of Wikimedia
Philippines, and is largely based in the Bicol Region in southern
Luzon.
...
...
WMPH, meanwhile, was based in Manila and had members nationwide.)
JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM
Block I1, AB Political Science
Major in Global Politics, Minor in Chinese Studies
Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University
Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines
jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com | +63 (977) 831-7582
Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harborhttps://joshlim.me
On Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 3:58:48 AM PDT, Ting Chen <
wing.philopp@gmx.de>
...
wrote:Hello Gnangarra,
I joined AffCom in 2015, at that time the issue with Wikimedia
Philippines was already on the table. The AffCom and the WMF had tried
two years to get a settlement without a de-recognition with them.
Meanwhile it is 2017, I don't believe Josh could resolve the problem in
the last five hours which the entire Wikimedia Philippines was not able
to resolve in the past two years. As I said in my other post, I
personally don't think it wise to withhold information, especially
obviously the people who would be "protected" don't appreciate being
protected. But actually on the decision itself if there is something
the
...
...
AffCom is to be blamed, it is that it took them two years of time to
make that hard decision. It was overdue, actually.
Greetings
Ting
Am 25.04.2017 um 11:43 schrieb Gnangarra:
...
In the original email from Josh he raises some points about still
working
...
...
to address the issues in the five hours between his email and your
response
...
which have occurred between 9pm and 2am in San Francisco it appears
that
...
it
...
could not be possible for the WMF to have considered and refuted what
was
...
...
raised, especially to say
*"The WMF and the AffCom have decided not to disclose further
details."  *I
...
am concerned about how you can speak so categorically after just 5
hours
...
...
for the WMF when they arent even awake, especially given it normally
takes
...
a few days for any official statement from the WMF.
I have no problem with affiliates being deregistered but the process
should
...
be transparent and it should also be fair, no discussion or response
to
...
...
...
what Josh raised publically is neither fair nor transparent
Josh response was that WMPH was accountable you could have least
given
...
...
him
...
the chance to clarify the availability of the reporting requirements
by
...
...
...
providing them
On 25 April 2017 at 17:33, Maor Malul maor_x@zoho.com wrote:
...
Hello,
The wikimedians from the Phillippines that attended the WMCON are
/not
...
...
...
...
/members of WMPH but of PhilWiki Community [1], which is a
completely
...
...
...
...
different Wikimedia affiliate.
If you read the original e-mail sent, the governance issues started
to
...
...
...
...
appear in 2014, and the chapter was notified back then. More issues
accumulated over the time, and a solution was indeed searched for.
Please
...
...
elaborate on what "substantive discussion, consultation or
investigation"
...
...
means.
1: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PhilWiki_Community
El 25/04/2017 a las 12:16 p.m., Gnangarra escribió:
...
It appears to me as this discussion has caused some confusion and
it
...
...
...
...
...
should be clarified as I know that the Philippines had two members
at
...
...
the
...
...
...
recent Wikimedia Conference in Berlin arent there reporting
requirements
...
...
...
attached to eligibility requirements. They are also part of the
group
...
...
...
...
...
organising the ESEA conference in February 2018 along with a number
of
...
...
...
...
other affiliates in the region. Those of us who have committed
people,
...
time
...
...
...
and other resources need some clarity as well
While there appears to be some confusion here, Affcom and WMF
should
...
at
...
...
...
...
least take some time to clarify the issues especially given its
currently
...
...
...
2am in San Francisco and it was only 9pm when Joshes email was
sent.
...
...
To me
...
...
...
it appears as if no substantive discussion, consultation or
investigation
...
...
...
of Joshes claims could have taken place to warrant such a harsh
response so
...
...
...
quickly.
On 25 April 2017 at 16:05, Maor Malul <maor_x@zoho.com mailto:
maor_x@zoho.com> wrote:
 Hello Josh,

 The WMF and the AffCom have decided not to disclose further
 details of the very serious governance issues in order not to

hurt
...
...
...
...
 the movement and the reputation of the people involved.

Please,
...
...
...
...
...
 avoid misleading and adding drama to this situation -which is
 already difficult, and damages the movement as a whole. WMPH

was
...
...
...
...
...
 given very specific recommendations of what do and what not to

do,
...
...
...
...
 but decided to go its own way.

 M.

 El 25/04/2017 a las 06:17 a.m., Josh Lim escribió:

     If you folks seriously think that we weren’t being
     “accountable”, then I have serious doubts about how this
     process will remain sustainable.

     I’m sorry, but this process has been exceedingly

demotivating
...
...
...
...
     for everyone involved.  I’ve been trying to keep myself
     composed throughout the entire process, but at this point

I
...
...
...
...
...
     simply cannot.

     I will gladly admit that we’ve made mistakes, us more than
     others.  Every organization does.  But I will not allow

the
...
...
...
...
...
     work that I’ve dedicated over a decade of my life to be

thrown
...
...
...
...
     out the window because we weren’t “accountable”.  To the

best
...
...
...
...
     of our ability, we WERE accountable to our community and

to
...
...
...
...
...
     the movement.  And I, frankly, feet that we were as
     accountable as we could’ve been.

     You may all want to know why I’ve been silent through this
     entire process.  It’s because I cannot, and I still

cannot,
...
...
...
...
...
     process the grief this entire process has brought upon
     Wikimedia Philippines, and especially myself.  I will try

to
...
...
...
...
...
     be optimistic about the future, as people have been

telling
...
me
...
...
...
...
     to do, but at this point in time, at least have some

respect
...
...
...
...
...
     for the work that we’ve done over the last six years.

That’s
...
...
...
...
     really all I’m asking for at this point.

     Thanks,

     Josh

         On Apr 23, 2017, at 9:41 PM, James Heilman
         <jmh649@gmail.com <mailto:jmh649@gmail.com>
         <mailto:jmh649@gmail.com <mailto:jmh649@gmail.com>>>

wrote:
...
...
...
         I second Itzik's comments. We need some degree of
         accountability. Hopefully this will encourage groups

in
...
...
...
...
...
         the Philippines to become more active again.

         James

         On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 2:14 AM, Itzik - Wikimedia
         Israel<itzik@wikimedia.org.il
         <mailto:itzik@wikimedia.org.il>
         <mailto:itzik@wikimedia.org.il

         <mailto:itzik@wikimedia.org.il>>>wrote:

             Thank you Maor for the update.

             We usually love to see our movement expend and

welcome
...
...
...
...
             recognition of new
             organizations, but I strongly believe that we
         continuously need
             to check
             and evaluate our current organizations.

             Our brand, name and reputation are part of our

core
...
...
...
...
...
         assets - and
             while it's
             not an easy step, I appreciate Affcom efforts not

only to
...
...
...
             recognize new
             ones but also to de-recognize organizations that

are
...
...
...
...
...
         not longer
             active or
             non-compliance with our movement requirements.

             Few weeks ago in Berlin we had a first meeting to
         start discuses
             what is a
             "movement accountability" and how we evaluate
         organizations who
             operate
             outside of the FDC process and I believe Affcom

have a
...
...
...
...
             significant part in
             it.

             *Regards,Itzik Edri*
             Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel
             +972-54-5878078
             <tel:%2B972-54-5878078> |

http://www.wikimedia.org.il
...
...
...
...
             <http://www.wikimedia.org.il/>
             Imagine a world in which every single human being

can
...
...
...
...
         freely
             share in the
             sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!

             On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 9:49 PM, Maor Malul
         <maor_x@zoho.com <mailto:maor_x@zoho.com>
             <mailto:maor_x@zoho.com <mailto:maor_x@zoho.com

wrote:
...
...
...
             > *
             >
             > Dear all,
             >
             > *
             >
             > **
             >
             > *Recognition as a Wikimedia affiliate - a

chapter,
...
...
...
...
...
         thematic
             organization,
             > or user group - allows an independent group to
         officially use
             the Wikimedia
             > name to further the Wikimedia mission, with

certain
...
...
...
...
         duties and
             > responsibilities.  While most Wikimedia

affiliates
...
...
...
...
...
         adhere to
             the basic
             > compliance standards set forth in their

agreements
...
...
...
...
...
         with the
             Wikimedia
             > Foundation, a protocol has been developed to

address the
...
...
...
             exceptional cases
             > when a Wikimedia affiliate does not meet minimum
         compliance
             standards and
             > their continued recognition as a Wikimedia

affiliate
...
...
...
...
         presents a
             risk to the
             > Wikimedia movement.*
             >
             > *
             >
             > On September 9, 2016, Wikimedia Philippines was
         notified of their
             > suspension as a Wikimedia affiliate due to long
         standing and
             serious
             > governance issues, as well as non-compliance

with
...
...
...
...
...
         reporting
             requirements
             > which go as back as 2014, has been sent multiple
         warnings
             regarding them,
             > and on the date mentioned above,  was provided

with
...
...
...
...
         an explicit
             list of
             > tasks and deadlines in order to return to

compliance
...
...
...
...
         with their
             chapter
             > agreement. The chapter failed to complete these
         tasks by the
             deadline of
             > November 28, 2016, and was consequently notified
         that they
             would no longer
             > be recognized as a Wikimedia chapter after the
         termination of
             their Chapter
             > Agreement on March 1, 2017.  It is important to

make
...
...
...
...
         clear that the
             > Affiliations Committee will continue to support
         other organized
             Wikimedia
             > communities and their activities in the

Philippines.
...
...
...
...
             >
             > If you have questions about what this means for

the
...
...
...
...
         community
             members in
             > their region or language areas, we have put

together
...
...
...
...
         a very
             basic FAQ,
             > which may be found at<

https://meta.wikimedia.org/
...
...
...
...
...
             >
         wiki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliate_de-recognition_FAQ>

https:/
...
...
...
             >
         /meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/

Wikimedia_movement_affiliates/
...
...
...
...
...
         <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_movement_

affiliate
...
...
...
s/>
                           <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wi
ki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliates/
         <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_movement_

affiliate
...
...
...
s/>>
                 > Affiliate_derecognition_FAQ.*
                 >
                 >
                 > --
                 > "*Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü
             alijunakalirua jee
                 wayuukanairua
                 > junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale
etijaanaka.
...
...
...
...
...
         Ayatashi waya
             junain."
             > Maor Malul
             > Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF

J-40129321-2
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...
             |www.wikimedia.org.ve <

http://www.wikimedia.org.ve%3E
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             > <http://wikimedia.org.ve <

http://wikimedia.org.ve/
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             > Member, Wikimedia Israel |www.wikimedia.org.il
         <http://www.wikimedia.org.il>
             <http://www.wikimedia.org.il/><

http://wikimedia.org.il
...
...
...
             <http://wikimedia.org.il/>>
             > Vice-Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations

Committee
...
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...
             > Phone:+972-52-4869915 <tel:%2B972-52-4869915>
             > Twitter: @maor_x
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     *JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM*
     President, Wikimedia Philippines

     j <mailto:jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com
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 --    "*Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua

jee
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 wayuukanairua junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale

etijaanaka.
...
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...
...
 Ayatashi waya junain."
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 Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 |
 www.wikimedia.org.ve <http://www.wikimedia.org.ve>
 <http://wikimedia.org.ve>
 Member, Wikimedia Israel | www.wikimedia.org.il
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James Heilman
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The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Chapter De-Recognition: Wikimedia Philippines