Hoi,
I have no problem with Pokemon articles, they are cuddly, friendly and
articles on individual characters are allowed on some Wikipedias and not on
others. I could have chosen characters from Star Wars to make my point as
well,
There is no reason at all why all subjects that are permitted on the English
Wikipedia should be permitted on another project. The notions of the English
Wikipedia are not universal. Individual Pokemon articles et al are denied on
the German Wikipedia and when individual people and or movies notable in the
porn industry are not permitted on a particular project, I have no problem
with it at all.
There are much more important issues to do with censorship on Wikipedia
projects. On some projects articles on the holocaust are severely censored
because "it is not an accepted fact that it happened the way you have it
portrayed". This means that articles, even featured articles of the English
Wikipedia associated with the second world war, cannot be literally
translated into these particular language versions of Wikipedia.
In many cultures the porn industry is not noted nor is porn permitted.
Insistence on having it included in Wikipedia is against the laws and morals
of such countries. I stand by my position that a comparison with the Pokemon
characters is valid; a Wikipedia article does not have to allow the
inclusion of all of them.
PS I am not outraged, I think your premise is wrong.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 3/8/07, Yonatan Horan <yonatanh(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I strongly resent your reply. It seems like you have some similar issues
with Pokemon articles and that's the reason you lashed out the way you
did.
The reason I raised this issue on this mailing list is not because of some
misplaced sense of outrage. The incident I was talking about took place
two
months ago and the only reason I mentioned it was to fully disclose any
relevant information so other people don't come on here later on and say
that the only reason I'm bringing this issue to the attention of others is
due to a vendetta against the Hebrew Wikipedia or something of the sort.
This isn't about me trying to provoke anything. It's about a certain group
of admins ignoring the fact that speedy deletion of porn articles was
never
passed as a policy on hewp (and there is more than one sysop who can
attest
to this). As I said previously, I don't have any particular interest in
porn
and the fact that I've never edited an article that has anything to do
with
this topic on the english wikipedia supports that. Ron Jeremy and Jenna
Jameson are both notable enough to have their own article on any
wikipedia,
whether it be English, Hebrew or Malaysian. Attempts have been made to
resolve this issue "in-house" have failed, otherwise I wouldn't have
posted
it to this mailing list. I can't find the specific meta page at the moment
but it isn't English Wikipedia only policy that wikipedia isn't censored.
If
the german wikipedia decided to delete all articles regarding Nazi
Germany,
etc. would you have reacted the same way? Or maybe if the Chinese
Wikipedia
decided to ban all articles on the issue of democracy? I hope you rethink
your response and maybe try not to treat me as a troll when I really am
not
one.
-Yonatan
On 3/8/07, GerardM <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hoi,
When you think that people are interested in what can be perceived as a
provocation, you are wrong. What makes you think that details about porn
is
of sufficient relevance to warrant an article? You have to appreciate
that
some Wikipedias are quite happy to even disallow
articles about Pokomon
characters. Now Pokomon creatures are much more educational. They are
the
staple diet of our youth.
Danny is a WMF employee, I believe he has more important things to do
than
to indulge your misplaced sense of outrage.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 3/8/07, Yonatan Horan <yonatanh(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
It has recently (about two months ago) come to my attention that
articles
> on
> the Hebrew Wikipedia are speedy deleted. I translated the Jenna
Jameson
article
from the English Wikipedia and it was very quickly speedy
deleted
> and I was indefinitely blocked due to being a sockpuppet of some guy
(of
> course no checkuser request was done). By
the way, I don't
particularly
like
porn articles or anything of the sort; in fact, I don't believe I've
ever
> edited a porn article on the enwp which I'm very active on. After a
few
> days
> (during which I complained on Danny's enwp talk page and thus got the
> attention of a Hebrew Wikipedia admin and later spoke on the phone
with
another
admin from hewp) I was unblocked. I'm guessing there have
probably
been other people who just gave up after they
were banned and didn't
return.
The situation is basically that if a user who isn't well-known on the
hewp
> (someone outside of a group of about 100 users) creates such an
article
he
will probably be perm-banned and if anyone else
does so, the article
will
> probably just be speedy deleted. No rule has been passed on the Hebrew
> Wikipedia regarding this and even if it had been passed, it would be
in
> violation of WMF (?) guidelines as Wikipedia
is not censored. Some
claim
that a
rule has been passed but many admins disagree with this. The
"vote"
was passed about two years ago and had 10-20
participants. In addition
to
this, the vote came at a time when the Hebrew
Wikipedia was repeatedly
vandalized by a certain user and many of the voters supposedly for the
banning of porn articles referred only to this specific case (this is
supported by their comments on the page).
By the way, just so nobody corrects me, on the Hebrew Wikipedia *there
are
votes* since consensus is hardly ever reached and
the total needed to
pass
a
vote is a ridiculous 55%. Anyway, despite all the above, a few admins
have
said that they will speedy delete any porn
articles created on the
Hebrew
Wikipedia. Currently there are a few porn
articles which are about the
movie
Deep Throat and two other articles that I don't recall at the moment.
This
> is a foundation issue because the situation right now is effectively
> censorship of articles that some people feel do not have a place on
the
> wikipedia. I know I will probably have those
who disagree with me be
> notified of this discussion at some point at which point the
slandering
> will
> begin and I will be called a "snitch" and possibly other more colorful
> terms
> so I ask ahead of time for this discussion to remain civil. Although I
> hate
> to burden Danny, who probably has a lot of more important things to
do,
he
is the only one who speaks both Hebrew and
English and could take care
of
this issue since he is obviously a person trusted
by most. Anyway I
think
I've written more than enough on an issue
that should be pretty
straightforward, that is, that wikipedia is not censored.
Thanks,
Yonatan
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