Could even be that no-one has gotten around to writing any policies and guidance, and
everyone is just winging it with very little oversight. How could we know?
Cheers,
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Dennis
During
Sent: 20 July 2020 00:15
To: effeietsanders(a)gmail.com; Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Operation and oversight of OTRS system
I think he's looking for openness. That doesn't require one to
psychoanalyze him; just a straightforward reading of what he has said,
especially in the context of wikidom. If there is some reason why OTRS
isn't important enough to merit policies, supervision, and transparency,
that should be easy to explain. If there is some other reason why we
shouldn't trouble our little heads about it, it should be possible to try
to explain that.
On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 18:01 effe iets anders <effeietsanders(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 7:55 AM Andy Mabbett
<andy(a)pigsonthewing.org.uk>
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 at 09:03, effe iets anders
<effeietsanders(a)gmail.com
wrote:
I rather have
that people make their assumptions explicit so that you have an
opportunity
to clarify, and use that as the basis for further
conversation.
You seem to be assuming - wrongly - that I have made assumptions which
I have not made explicit.
Ironically, you have not explicitly stated your assumption.
> My reading of this discussion is that there is a lot of 'secrecy'
assumed
No secrecy is being assumed. Too much secrecy is being observed.
> where it is probably more a lack of existence of policies in the way
Andy
would
like them to exist. This is a known problem with OTRS.
It may well be that some policies that should exist, do not, or are
''de facto'' without being written down. But until we see a
comprehensive list of those that do exist and are written, how can we
know?
I feel comfortable sharing that the set of
OTRS-wide 'policies' that is
on
the wiki, is probably of little interest to this
matter.
I am very interested in seeing all those 'policies'; as others have
said they are.
As noted earlier in this thread, I do not see how I could be any more
clear about my wish to see them.
> This is why I
> noted that Jonatan's response could be misleading, because it implies
all
kind of
secrecy that doesn't exist.
It stated, not implied, that "the Confidentiality Agreement all OTRS
agents sign" prevented him from answering some of the questions asked
on-wiki in February, and quoted at the start of this thread.
There are actually a few policies
linked at [[m:OTRS <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OTRS>]], that are
simply copied there (Access, Activity policies).
That page, and those linked from it, do not answer the questions to
which I have already referred.
> There is some stuff about
> privacy, confidentiality and how to deal with mailing lists. Imho
nothing
that
exciting.
Perhaps not exciting to you; but I and others argue that such content
should nonetheless be public. We have been told that OTRS agents are
discussing the matter on their private email and IRC channels, but
then... Nothing.
OTRS is an immensely diverse system, and I
don't think it's helpful to
try
to analyze that with overly broad questions.
I do not accept that questions such as, for example:
5 how is OTRS overseen, and who by?
7 what is the process for the community to remove an
individual's OTRS permissions, if they fail to uphold
or abide by policy?
9 which individuals can make someone an OTRS agent,
or remove their permissions?
10 how are the individuals in #9 appointed and overseen?
are "overly broad"; but if you think they are, how would you narrow their
focus?
First of all: you're framing my words and taking them out of context. I'm
not going to waste further energy on that.
Answering that would require me to actually understand what the underlying
issue is that you want to solve. I've given up on that.
Lodewijk
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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