The main problem happens when someone considers to don't have received a fair assessment.
I understand that the T&S must have a certain role, but I am sorry for the T&S, the criticisms are part of this role.
Considering that every decision will be accepted unconditionally is not suitable. To ensure a fair trial, in general two levels of evaluation are often created with two different "courts" so those who consider themselves to have been wrongly judged (people can make mistakes), can ask another "independent" court to be evaluated and to confirm or to reject the first level. Here it seems to me that T&S always considers itself on the right side but this sense of infallibility is not the feeling that the community has.
Apart from all what strikes me is that a person must publicly say his sexual tendencies because he believes that he has not been judged correctly and excused, apart from the moral lesson, this thing is very sad because the T&S has produced an act that has committed an even more serious act.
Imagine that the part recognized in error is right, how will the T&S be excused? Will it write a letter of public apology?
Kind regards
On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 9:31 AM Philip Kopetzky philip.kopetzky@gmail.com wrote:
Questioning is ok - we might indeed need to introduce some oversight, but to be honest, I doubt this would solve the trust issue as long as some people demand full transparency where there can never be full transparency.
Speculating and accusing victims of being the actual perpetrators, believing the perpetrators more than the victims, perpetrators depicting themselves as the victims, is a sad default behaviour in our community. This needs to change. Seriously.
On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 08:17, Peter Southwood < peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
How can we BE safe in the movement if we cannot question the decisions of T&S? (when they appear questionable and unsafe) Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Natacha Rault via Wikimedia-l Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 7:57 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Some goodbye to all
First of all I don’t know the context of this conversation. I know that I personnally find that the actions of Trust& Safety very valuable and wise. I totally support and trust their judgement.
I am tired of seing their work criticized, and do not appreciate official chapter representants and employees publicly supporting alleged
offenders,
showing no aknowledgement of the fact that this is very toxic for alleged victims, and does not help to change attitude towards issues of harrassment.
How can we feel safe in the movement if the decisions of T&S are questionned by official members of our movement?
Nattes à chat
Le 21 juin 2019 à 01:04, Chris Keating chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com a écrit :
It is extremely disappointing, and *extremely typical* of the
Wikimedia
movement, to see an entire thread like this dedicated to supporting
someone
who Trust & Safety has found to have acted in such a way that they had
to
intervene. It is even more disappointing to see a person who was
affected
by his actions told "this is not your story" and "it may help you when
you
grow some sensitivity and respect this experience, the feelings of others."
If you're wondering why women leave the Wikimedia movement, and why Wikimedia has such a bad harassment problem in general, just reflect
on
this thread.
Thank you, Molly, for expressing what I was just trying to summon the energy to write.
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