Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Chapter De-Recognition: Wikimedia Philippines

In the original email from Josh he raises some points about still working to address the issues in the five hours between his email and your response which have occurred between 9pm and 2am in San Francisco it appears that it could not be possible for the WMF to have considered and refuted what was raised, especially to say *"The WMF and the AffCom have decided not to disclose further details​." *​I am concerned about how you can speak so categorically after just 5 hours for the WMF when they arent even awake​, especially given it normally takes a few days for any official statement from the WMF.

I have no problem with affiliates being deregistered but the process should be transparent and it should also be fair, no discussion or response to what Josh raised publically is neither fair nor transparent

Josh response was that WMPH was accountable you could have least given him the chance to clarify the availability of the reporting requirements by providing them

On 25 April 2017 at 17:33, Maor Malul maor_x@zoho.com wrote:

Hello,

The wikimedians from the Phillippines that attended the WMCON are /not /members of WMPH but of PhilWiki Community [1], which is a completely different Wikimedia affiliate.

If you read the original e-mail sent, the governance issues started to appear in 2014, and the chapter was notified back then. More issues accumulated over the time, and a solution was indeed searched for. Please elaborate on what "substantive discussion, consultation or investigation" means.

1: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PhilWiki_Community

El 25/04/2017 a las 12:16 p.m., Gnangarra escribió:

...

It appears to me as this discussion has caused some confusion and it should be clarified as I know that the Philippines had two members at the recent Wikimedia Conference in Berlin arent there reporting requirements attached to eligibility requirements. They are also part of the group organising the ESEA conference in February 2018 along with a number of other affiliates in the region. Those of us who have committed people, time and other resources need some clarity as well

While there appears to be some confusion here, Affcom and WMF should at least take some time to clarify the issues especially given its currently 2am in San Francisco and it was only 9pm when Joshes email was sent. To me it appears as if no substantive discussion, consultation or investigation of Joshes claims could have taken place to warrant such a harsh response so quickly.

On 25 April 2017 at 16:05, Maor Malul <maor_x@zoho.com mailto: maor_x@zoho.com> wrote:

Hello Josh,

The WMF and the AffCom have decided not to disclose further
details of the very serious governance issues in order not to hurt
the movement and the reputation of the people involved. Please,
avoid misleading and adding drama to this situation -which is
already difficult, and damages the movement as a whole. WMPH was
given very specific recommendations of what do and what not to do,
but decided to go its own way.

M.


El 25/04/2017 a las 06:17 a.m., Josh Lim escribió:

    If you folks seriously think that we weren’t being
    “accountable”, then I have serious doubts about how this
    process will remain sustainable.

    I’m sorry, but this process has been exceedingly demotivating
    for everyone involved.  I’ve been trying to keep myself
    composed throughout the entire process, but at this point I
    simply cannot.

    I will gladly admit that we’ve made mistakes, us more than
    others.  Every organization does.  But I will not allow the
    work that I’ve dedicated over a decade of my life to be thrown
    out the window because we weren’t “accountable”.  To the best
    of our ability, we WERE accountable to our community and to
    the movement.  And I, frankly, feet that we were as
    accountable as we could’ve been.

    You may all want to know why I’ve been silent through this
    entire process.  It’s because I cannot, and I still cannot,
    process the grief this entire process has brought upon
    Wikimedia Philippines, and especially myself.  I will try to
    be optimistic about the future, as people have been telling me
    to do, but at this point in time, at least have some respect
    for the work that we’ve done over the last six years.  That’s
    really all I’m asking for at this point.

    Thanks,

    Josh

        On Apr 23, 2017, at 9:41 PM, James Heilman
        <jmh649@gmail.com <mailto:jmh649@gmail.com>
        <mailto:jmh649@gmail.com <mailto:jmh649@gmail.com>>> wrote:

        I second Itzik's comments. We need some degree of
        accountability. Hopefully this will encourage groups in
        the Philippines to become more active again.

        James

        On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 2:14 AM, Itzik - Wikimedia
        Israel<itzik@wikimedia.org.il
        <mailto:itzik@wikimedia.org.il>
        <mailto:itzik@wikimedia.org.il

        <mailto:itzik@wikimedia.org.il>>>wrote:

            Thank you Maor for the update.

            We usually love to see our movement expend and welcome
            recognition of new
            organizations, but I strongly believe that we
        continuously need
            to check
            and evaluate our current organizations.

            Our brand, name and reputation are part of our core
        assets - and
            while it's
            not an easy step, I appreciate Affcom efforts not only to
            recognize new
            ones but also to de-recognize organizations that are
        not longer
            active or
            non-compliance with our movement requirements.

            Few weeks ago in Berlin we had a first meeting to
        start discuses
            what is a
            "movement accountability" and how we evaluate
        organizations who
            operate
            outside of the FDC process and I believe Affcom have a
            significant part in
            it.






            *Regards,Itzik Edri*
            Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel
            +972-54-5878078
            <tel:%2B972-54-5878078> |http://www.wikimedia.org.il
            <http://www.wikimedia.org.il/>
            Imagine a world in which every single human being can
        freely
            share in the
            sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!


            On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 9:49 PM, Maor Malul
        <maor_x@zoho.com <mailto:maor_x@zoho.com>
            <mailto:maor_x@zoho.com <mailto:maor_x@zoho.com>>> wrote:

            > *
            >
            > Dear all,
            >
            > *
            >
            > **
            >
            > *Recognition as a Wikimedia affiliate - a chapter,
        thematic
            organization,
            > or user group - allows an independent group to
        officially use
            the Wikimedia
            > name to further the Wikimedia mission, with certain
        duties and
            > responsibilities.  While most Wikimedia affiliates
        adhere to
            the basic
            > compliance standards set forth in their agreements
        with the
            Wikimedia
            > Foundation, a protocol has been developed to address the
            exceptional cases
            > when a Wikimedia affiliate does not meet minimum
        compliance
            standards and
            > their continued recognition as a Wikimedia affiliate
        presents a
            risk to the
            > Wikimedia movement.*
            >
            > *
            >
            > On September 9, 2016, Wikimedia Philippines was
        notified of their
            > suspension as a Wikimedia affiliate due to long
        standing and
            serious
            > governance issues, as well as non-compliance with
        reporting
            requirements
            > which go as back as 2014, has been sent multiple
        warnings
            regarding them,
            > and on the date mentioned above,  was provided with
        an explicit
            list of
            > tasks and deadlines in order to return to compliance
        with their
            chapter
            > agreement. The chapter failed to complete these
        tasks by the
            deadline of
            > November 28, 2016, and was consequently notified
        that they
            would no longer
            > be recognized as a Wikimedia chapter after the
        termination of
            their Chapter
            > Agreement on March 1, 2017.  It is important to make
        clear that the
            > Affiliations Committee will continue to support
        other organized
            Wikimedia
            > communities and their activities in the Philippines.
            >
            > If you have questions about what this means for the
        community
            members in
            > their region or language areas, we have put together
        a very
            basic FAQ,
            > which may be found at<https://meta.wikimedia.org/
            >
        wiki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliate_de-recognition_FAQ>https:/
            >
        /meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliates/
        <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliate

s/> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wi ki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliates/

        <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliate

s/>> > Affiliate_derecognition_FAQ.* > > > -- > "*Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua jee wayuukanairua > junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka. Ayatashi waya junain." > Maor Malul > Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 |www.wikimedia.org.ve http://www.wikimedia.org.ve http://www.wikimedia.org.ve/ > <http://wikimedia.org.ve http://wikimedia.org.ve/> > Member, Wikimedia Israel |www.wikimedia.org.il http://www.wikimedia.org.il http://www.wikimedia.org.il/<http://wikimedia.org.il http://wikimedia.org.il/> > Vice-Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations Committee > Phone:+972-52-4869915 tel:%2B972-52-4869915 > Twitter: @maor_x > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik > i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines andhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> > New messages to:Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:to%3AWikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> > Unsubscribe:https://lists.wik imedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>?subject=un subscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:https://meta.wikimedia. org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines <https://meta.wikimedia.org/w iki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> andhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> New messages to:Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:to%3AWikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> Unsubscribe:https://lists.wik imedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l <https://lists.wikimedia.org/ mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>?subject=un subscribe>

        --
        James Heilman
        MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

        The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
        _______________________________________________
        Affiliates mailing list
        Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org
        <mailto:Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org>
        <mailto:Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org
        <mailto:Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org>>
        https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates
        <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates>


    *JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM*
    President, Wikimedia Philippines

    j <mailto:jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com
    <mailto:jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com>>osh.lim@wikimedia.org.ph
    <mailto:osh.lim@wikimedia.org.ph>
    <mailto:osh.lim@wikimedia.org.ph
    <mailto:osh.lim@wikimedia.org.ph>> | +63 (977) 831-7582
    Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor
    http://www.wikimedia.org.ph <http://www.wikimedia.org.ph/>



    _______________________________________________
    Affiliates mailing list
    Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org
    <mailto:Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org>
    https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates
    <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates>


--     "*Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua jee
wayuukanairua junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka.
Ayatashi waya junain."
Maor Malul
Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 |
www.wikimedia.org.ve <http://www.wikimedia.org.ve>
<http://wikimedia.org.ve>
Member, Wikimedia Israel | www.wikimedia.org.il
<http://www.wikimedia.org.il> <http://wikimedia.org.il>
Vice-Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations Committee
Phone: +972-52-4869915
Twitter: @maor_x
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l>
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org>?subject=unsubscribe>

-- GN. President Wikimedia Australia WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com

---

Affiliates mailing list Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates

-- "*Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua jee wayuukanairua junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka. Ayatashi waya junain." Maor Malul Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 | www.wikimedia.org.ve http://wikimedia.org.ve Member, Wikimedia Israel | www.wikimedia.org.il http://wikimedia.org.il Vice-Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations Committee Phone: +972-52-4869915 Twitter: @maor_x _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe