Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Chapter De-Recognition: Wikimedia Philippines

26 Apr 2017


      We dont blame a life saver for attempting to rescue and resuscitate a
person who is drowning
At the end of a community groups life its the very people we want to step
up are the ones who end up in the positions of responsibility as they
endeavor to save that which has great significance to them.  Its normal for
those who cause the issues and failed to meet the requirements to have
abandoned the community, thus the process holds the wrong people
accountable.  It also places an unfair expectation on these people who wont
have sufficient knowledge nor the resources to address issue in an adequate
form. By then preventing them from accessing a simpler model the process
has ensured it has someone to blame it hasnt done anything to protect the
movements identity nor enable a recovery of the movement activities in the
region afterwards.
Retail closes under performing stores all the time but in doing so they
make every attempt to protect their customers, suppliers, and retain
skilled staff at the moment our process just closes the store and doesnt
look after our clients, suppliers, nor the skilled people whos knowledge we
still need.
On 26 April 2017 at 02:17, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
wrote:
...
Hoi,
When individuals are discredited in this way, your option, you are judging
these people. That is in my opinion a mistake. You may judge a situation
and determine because of what you consider your responsibility to either
accept or no longer accept the existence of a chapter, whatever entity.
When you judge people and determine that you will not trust them in the
future to do good. You have a problem.
It is exactly when a group is small that your priority must be in growing
the group and the quality of their interaction. By dismissing people
totally you achieve the opposite of what we want; that is representation of
our movement in the most optimal way.
Thanks,
      GerardM
On 25 April 2017 at 18:31, Kirill Lokshin kirill.lokshin@gmail.com
wrote:
...
User groups are, indeed, a more "light-weight" model of affiliation, with
significantly fewer compliance requirements -- at least for groups which
are unincorporated and do not receive significant grants -- and the
Affiliations Committee has, in the past, encouraged chapters struggling
with reporting and similar requirements to consider becoming a user
group.
...
Having said that, there are certain issues that can prevent a smooth
transition from a chapter to a user group.  In particular, any
individuals
...
considered to have personal responsibility for an outstanding compliance
issue -- which means, generally speaking, the actual signatories of a
chapter or grant agreement, but could potentially include every member of
the governing board in the case of an incorporated affiliate -- are not
eligible to serve as signatories of a new user group agreement until the
original compliance issue has been resolved.  This proves to be a
challenge
...
when a group is small, or when the existing leadership of a group is
unwilling to step aside during a transition.
Regards,
Kirill Lokshin
Chair, Affiliations Committee
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 12:10 PM, James Heilman jmh649@gmail.com
wrote:
...
...
Running a "user group" is much less bureaucratic overhead. Can WMPH not
just rejoin the movement as that? When the capacity to return to
chapter
...
...
status develops the group can than apply for chapter status.
James
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 5:17 AM, Josh Lim jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com
wrote:
...
First of all, I'm not blaming anyone. I'm merely stating what is our
position: that is, that we've been dealing with our issues to the
best
...
of
...
...
our ability.  That said, I'm sorry, but I will not tolerate being
told
...
...
that
...
I am "misleading" the movement by telling people what we've done to
get
...
...
...
ourselves out of this mess.  I wouldn't dare stake my own reputation
on
...
...
...
misleading the movement, and for people to presume otherwise is
appalling
...
...
for a movement that claims to work on a fundamental assumption of
good
...
...
...
faith.
It's perfectly fine that we've come to opposing conclusions as to how
compliant we are, but the facts stand that we've worked our butts off
to
...
...
return to compliance.  And we intend to do so.  If the Wikimedia
Foundation's ideal conclusion is that non-compliant affiliates ought
to
...
...
...
disband entirely, then what good is the process in the first place if
the
...
...
idea is to help organizations return to compliance?
I'll affirm that we've received a deadline notice.  I confirmed that
in
...
...
my
...
last e-mail to this list.  The Wikimedia Foundation did give a list
of
...
...
...
things that we had to fix to return to compliance.  We ticked off a
number
...
of items from that list, and have conceded in our internal
communications
...
...
that other items can't be ticked off immediately owing to our
capacity
...
...
and
...
asked for more time to that effect.  The decision that was ultimately
made
...
was for us to lose our status because not everything was met by the
deadline, and that was DESPITE everything that we've done at WMPH to
meet
...
...
the deadline to begin with.
So no, I will NOT tolerate being told that we did nothing to return
to
...
...
...
compliance, and by no less than the chair of the Affiliations
Committee
...
...
--
...
who otherwise I have a deep respect for -- in fact.  At the very
least,
...
...
...
there has to be a concession that we tried.  I have not heard that
from
...
...
the
...
other side thus far, and I'm here to make sure that people know that
we
...
...
in
...
fact DID try to return to compliance.
Thanks,
Josh
(P.S.: For those asking, PhilWiki is not affiliated with WMPH.
PhilWiki
...
...
is a splinter group that was founded by a former member of Wikimedia
Philippines, and is largely based in the Bicol Region in southern
Luzon.
...
...
WMPH, meanwhile, was based in Manila and had members nationwide.)
JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM
Block I1, AB Political Science
Major in Global Politics, Minor in Chinese Studies
Class of 2013, Ateneo de Manila University
Quezon City, Metro Manila, Philippines
jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com | +63 (977) 831-7582
Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harborhttps://joshlim.me
On Tuesday, April 25, 2017, 3:58:48 AM PDT, Ting Chen <
wing.philopp@gmx.de>
...
wrote:Hello Gnangarra,
I joined AffCom in 2015, at that time the issue with Wikimedia
Philippines was already on the table. The AffCom and the WMF had
tried
...
...
...
two years to get a settlement without a de-recognition with them.
Meanwhile it is 2017, I don't believe Josh could resolve the problem
in
...
...
...
the last five hours which the entire Wikimedia Philippines was not
able
...
...
...
to resolve in the past two years. As I said in my other post, I
personally don't think it wise to withhold information, especially
obviously the people who would be "protected" don't appreciate being
protected. But actually on the decision itself if there is something
the
...
...
AffCom is to be blamed, it is that it took them two years of time to
make that hard decision. It was overdue, actually.
Greetings
Ting
Am 25.04.2017 um 11:43 schrieb Gnangarra:
...
In the original email from Josh he raises some points about still
working
...
...
to address the issues in the five hours between his email and your
response
...
which have occurred between 9pm and 2am in San Francisco it appears
that
...
it
...
could not be possible for the WMF to have considered and refuted
what
...
...
was
...
...
raised, especially to say
*"The WMF and the AffCom have decided not to disclose further
details."  *I
...
am concerned about how you can speak so categorically after just 5
hours
...
...
for the WMF when they arent even awake, especially given it
normally
...
...
...
takes
...
a few days for any official statement from the WMF.
I have no problem with affiliates being deregistered but the
process
...
...
...
should
...
be transparent and it should also be fair, no discussion or
response
...
to
...
...
...
what Josh raised publically is neither fair nor transparent
Josh response was that WMPH was accountable you could have least
given
...
...
him
...
the chance to clarify the availability of the reporting
requirements
...
by
...
...
...
providing them
On 25 April 2017 at 17:33, Maor Malul maor_x@zoho.com wrote:
...
Hello,
The wikimedians from the Phillippines that attended the WMCON are
/not
...
...
...
...
/members of WMPH but of PhilWiki Community [1], which is a
completely
...
...
...
...
different Wikimedia affiliate.
If you read the original e-mail sent, the governance issues
started
...
to
...
...
...
...
appear in 2014, and the chapter was notified back then. More
issues
...
...
...
...
...
accumulated over the time, and a solution was indeed searched for.
Please
...
...
elaborate on what "substantive discussion, consultation or
investigation"
...
...
means.
1: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PhilWiki_Community
El 25/04/2017 a las 12:16 p.m., Gnangarra escribió:
> It appears to me as this discussion has caused some confusion and
it
...
...
...
...
> should be clarified as I know that the Philippines had two
members
...
at
...
...
the
...
...
> recent Wikimedia Conference in Berlin arent there reporting
requirements
...
...
> attached to eligibility requirements. They are also part of the
group
...
...
...
...
> organising the ESEA conference in February 2018 along with a
number
...
...
of
...
...
...
> other affiliates in the region. Those of us who have committed
people,
...
time
...
...
> and other resources need some clarity as well
>
> While there appears to be some confusion here, Affcom and WMF
should
...
at
...
...
...
> least take some time to clarify the issues especially given its
currently
...
...
> 2am in San Francisco and it was only 9pm when Joshes email was
sent.
...
...
To me
...
...
> it appears as if no substantive discussion, consultation or
investigation
...
...
> of Joshes claims could have taken place to warrant such a harsh
response so
...
...
> quickly.
>
> On 25 April 2017 at 16:05, Maor Malul <maor_x@zoho.com mailto:
 maor_x@zoho.com>> wrote:
>
>      Hello Josh,
>
>      The WMF and the AffCom have decided not to disclose further
>      details of the very serious governance issues in order not
to
...
...
hurt
...
...
...
>      the movement and the reputation of the people involved.
Please,
...
...
...
...
>      avoid misleading and adding drama to this situation -which
is
...
...
...
...
...
>      already difficult, and damages the movement as a whole. WMPH
was
...
...
...
...
>      given very specific recommendations of what do and what not
to
...
...
do,
...
...
...
>      but decided to go its own way.
>
>      M.
>
>
>      El 25/04/2017 a las 06:17 a.m., Josh Lim escribió:
>
>          If you folks seriously think that we weren’t being
>          “accountable”, then I have serious doubts about how this
>          process will remain sustainable.
>
>          I’m sorry, but this process has been exceedingly
demotivating
...
...
...
>          for everyone involved.  I’ve been trying to keep myself
>          composed throughout the entire process, but at this
point
...
I
...
...
...
...
>          simply cannot.
>
>          I will gladly admit that we’ve made mistakes, us more
than
...
...
...
...
...
>          others.  Every organization does.  But I will not allow
the
...
...
...
...
>          work that I’ve dedicated over a decade of my life to be
thrown
...
...
...
>          out the window because we weren’t “accountable”.  To the
best
...
...
...
>          of our ability, we WERE accountable to our community and
to
...
...
...
...
>          the movement.  And I, frankly, feet that we were as
>          accountable as we could’ve been.
>
>          You may all want to know why I’ve been silent through
this
...
...
...
...
...
>          entire process.  It’s because I cannot, and I still
cannot,
...
...
...
...
>          process the grief this entire process has brought upon
>          Wikimedia Philippines, and especially myself.  I will
try
...
to
...
...
...
...
>          be optimistic about the future, as people have been
telling
...
me
...
...
...
>          to do, but at this point in time, at least have some
respect
...
...
...
...
>          for the work that we’ve done over the last six years.
That’s
...
...
...
>          really all I’m asking for at this point.
>
>          Thanks,
>
>          Josh
>
>              On Apr 23, 2017, at 9:41 PM, James Heilman
>              <jmh649@gmail.com mailto:jmh649@gmail.com
>              <mailto:jmh649@gmail.com <mailto:jmh649@gmail.com
wrote:
...
...
>
>              I second Itzik's comments. We need some degree of
>              accountability. Hopefully this will encourage groups
in
...
...
...
...
>              the Philippines to become more active again.
>
>              James
>
>              On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 2:14 AM, Itzik - Wikimedia
>              Israel<itzik@wikimedia.org.il
>              mailto:itzik@wikimedia.org.il
>              mailto:itzik@wikimedia.org.il

>              mailto:itzik@wikimedia.org.il>>wrote:
>
>                  Thank you Maor for the update.
>
>                  We usually love to see our movement expend and
welcome
...
...
...
>                  recognition of new
>                  organizations, but I strongly believe that we
>              continuously need
>                  to check
>                  and evaluate our current organizations.
>
>                  Our brand, name and reputation are part of our
core
...
...
...
...
>              assets - and
>                  while it's
>                  not an easy step, I appreciate Affcom efforts
not
...
...
...
only to
...
...
>                  recognize new
>                  ones but also to de-recognize organizations that
are
...
...
...
...
>              not longer
>                  active or
>                  non-compliance with our movement requirements.
>
>                  Few weeks ago in Berlin we had a first meeting
to
...
...
...
...
...
>              start discuses
>                  what is a
>                  "movement accountability" and how we evaluate
>              organizations who
>                  operate
>                  outside of the FDC process and I believe Affcom
have a
...
...
...
>                  significant part in
>                  it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                  *Regards,Itzik Edri*
>                  Chairperson, Wikimedia Israel
>                  +972-54-5878078
>                  tel:%2B972-54-5878078 |
http://www.wikimedia.org.il
...
...
...
>                  http://www.wikimedia.org.il/
>                  Imagine a world in which every single human
being
...
...
can
...
...
...
>              freely
>                  share in the
>                  sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment!
>
>
>                  On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 9:49 PM, Maor Malul
>              <maor_x@zoho.com mailto:maor_x@zoho.com
>                  <mailto:maor_x@zoho.com <mailto:maor_x@zoho.com
wrote:
...
...
>
>                  > *
>                  >
>                  > Dear all,
>                  >
>                  > *
>                  >
>                  > **
>                  >
>                  > *Recognition as a Wikimedia affiliate - a
chapter,
...
...
...
...
>              thematic
>                  organization,
>                  > or user group - allows an independent group to
>              officially use
>                  the Wikimedia
>                  > name to further the Wikimedia mission, with
certain
...
...
...
>              duties and
>                  > responsibilities.  While most Wikimedia
affiliates
...
...
...
...
>              adhere to
>                  the basic
>                  > compliance standards set forth in their
agreements
...
...
...
...
>              with the
>                  Wikimedia
>                  > Foundation, a protocol has been developed to
address the
...
...
>                  exceptional cases
>                  > when a Wikimedia affiliate does not meet
minimum
...
...
...
...
...
>              compliance
>                  standards and
>                  > their continued recognition as a Wikimedia
affiliate
...
...
...
>              presents a
>                  risk to the
>                  > Wikimedia movement.*
>                  >
>                  > *
>                  >
>                  > On September 9, 2016, Wikimedia Philippines
was
...
...
...
...
...
>              notified of their
>                  > suspension as a Wikimedia affiliate due to
long
...
...
...
...
...
>              standing and
>                  serious
>                  > governance issues, as well as non-compliance
with
...
...
...
...
>              reporting
>                  requirements
>                  > which go as back as 2014, has been sent
multiple
...
...
...
...
...
>              warnings
>                  regarding them,
>                  > and on the date mentioned above,  was provided
with
...
...
...
>              an explicit
>                  list of
>                  > tasks and deadlines in order to return to
compliance
...
...
...
>              with their
>                  chapter
>                  > agreement. The chapter failed to complete
these
...
...
...
...
...
>              tasks by the
>                  deadline of
>                  > November 28, 2016, and was consequently
notified
...
...
...
...
...
>              that they
>                  would no longer
>                  > be recognized as a Wikimedia chapter after the
>              termination of
>                  their Chapter
>                  > Agreement on March 1, 2017.  It is important
to
...
...
make
...
...
...
>              clear that the
>                  > Affiliations Committee will continue to
support
...
...
...
...
...
>              other organized
>                  Wikimedia
>                  > communities and their activities in the
Philippines.
...
...
...
>                  >
>                  > If you have questions about what this means
for
...
...
the
...
...
...
>              community
>                  members in
>                  > their region or language areas, we have put
together
...
...
...
>              a very
>                  basic FAQ,
>                  > which may be found at<
https://meta.wikimedia.org/
...
...
...
...
>                  >
>              wiki/Wikimedia_movement_
affiliate_de-recognition_FAQ>
...
...
...
https:/
...
...
>                  >
>              /meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/
Wikimedia_movement_affiliates/
...
...
...
...
>              <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_movement_
affiliate
...
...
> s/>
>                            http://meta.wikimedia.org/wi
 ki/Wikimedia_movement_affiliates/
>
>              <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_movement_
affiliate
...
...
> s/>>
>                  > Affiliate_derecognition_FAQ.*
>                  >
>                  >
>                  > --
>                  > "*Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü
>              alijunakalirua jee
>                  wayuukanairua
>                  > junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale
etijaanaka.
...
...
...
...
>              Ayatashi waya
>                  junain."
>                  > Maor Malul
>                  > Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF
J-40129321-2
...
...
...
...
>                  |www.wikimedia.org.ve <
http://www.wikimedia.org.ve%3E
...
...
...
...
>              http://www.wikimedia.org.ve/
>                  > <http://wikimedia.org.ve <
http://wikimedia.org.ve/
...
...
...
>                  > Member, Wikimedia Israel |
www.wikimedia.org.il
...
...
...
...
...
>              http://www.wikimedia.org.il
>                  http://www.wikimedia.org.il/<
http://wikimedia.org.il
...
...
>                  http://wikimedia.org.il/>
>                  > Vice-Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations
Committee
...
...
>                  > Phone:+972-52-4869915 tel:%2B972-52-4869915
>                  > Twitter: @maor_x
>                  > ______________________________

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>              --
>              James Heilman
>              MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>
>              The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
>              _______________________________________________
>              Affiliates mailing list
>              Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org
>              mailto:Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org
>              mailto:Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org
              mailto:Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org>
>              https://lists.wikimedia.org/
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>
>
>          *JAMES JOSHUA G. LIM*
>          President, Wikimedia Philippines
>
>          j mailto:jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com
          mailto:jamesjoshualim@yahoo.com>
osh.lim@wikimedia.org.ph
...
...
...
...
>          mailto:osh.lim@wikimedia.org.ph
>          mailto:osh.lim@wikimedia.org.ph
          mailto:osh.lim@wikimedia.org.ph> | +63 (977) 831-7582
>          Facebook/Twitter: akiestar | Wikimedia: Sky Harbor
>          http://www.wikimedia.org.ph <
http://www.wikimedia.org.ph/
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>
>
>
>          _______________________________________________
>          Affiliates mailing list
>          Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org
>          mailto:Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org
>          https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates
>          <https://lists.wikimedia.org/
mailman/listinfo/affiliates>
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>
>
>      --    "*Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua
jee
...
...
...
...
>      wayuukanairua junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale
etijaanaka.
...
...
...
...
>      Ayatashi waya junain."
>      Maor Malul
>      Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 |
>      www.wikimedia.org.ve http://www.wikimedia.org.ve
>      http://wikimedia.org.ve
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"*Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua jee
wayuukanairua
...
...
...
junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka. Ayatashi waya
junain."
...
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Maor Malul
Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 |
www.wikimedia.org.ve
...
...
http://wikimedia.org.ve
Member, Wikimedia Israel | www.wikimedia.org.il <
http://wikimedia.org.il%3E
...
...
Vice-Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations Committee
Phone: +972-52-4869915
Twitter: @maor_x
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Chapter De-Recognition: Wikimedia Philippines

>