Hi
I am new to your list and browsed the archives briefly. I have a concern
related to the FDL. A little background first - I started a project (
http://www.nongnu.org/fhsst ) to do something similar to wikibooks but
not quite as general. We think we'll just upload our books into
wikibooks when we are done.
We decided that in FDL spirit we'd use content from wikipedia and
wikibooks to kickstart some sections etc. One of our members raised the
concern that wikipedia content isn't screened to ensure that the
contributor holds the copyright and may therefore add it to wikipedia
and transfer copyright license to the FDL.
I guess that wikipedia could just remove content that is queried by
someone who claims to have the copyright. Is this what you plan to do
if such a problem arises? I realise that it is clear what license you
are using etc. but who takes the fall if some commits something they
don't hold the copyright to?
Our real concern is that we want to actually print books and raising
money is hard enough. We don't want to risk printing the books again if
something came up. (The quick answer is to write everything ourselves
but thats also the slowest answer and we'd like to act as decisively as
possible too.)
Have all these sorts of issues been resolved for wikipedia?
Thanks,
Mark
--
--
Mark Horner
Jabber/AIM/Yahoo: marknewlyn
Co-author:
http://www.nongnu.org/fhssthttp://savannah.gnu.org/projects/fhsst
Windows 9x, NT & 2K is a 32 bit extension and a graphical shell for a 16
bit
patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit
microprocessor,
written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition.
To complete the conversion of the wikipedias to MediaWiki 1.3, I'm going
to run a script which does the following:
* Moves every page in the MediaWiki namespace which is not an internal
message, to the Template namespace, unless there is already a page at
the target location
* In all pages linking to the moved pages, or including a template,
{{msg:pagename}} will be converted to {{pagename}}, and
[[MediaWiki:pagename]] will be converted to [[Template:pagename]], where
pagename is the name of the moved page.
After this is done, a few technical problems involving clearing caches
when templates are changed will be fixed.
This will probably take a while. There won't be any downtime. Edits will
be attributed to "Template namespace initialisation script".
-- Tim Starling
Thanks to Gabriel Wicke, sysops can now add a stylesheet for their wiki
using [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]]. The content of these stylesheets
should be similar to the user stylesheets. I have used this feature to
increase the font size on the CJK wikis, as requested on wikitech-l.
Stylesheets for the other skins and configurable javascript will be
implemented soon.
-- Tim Starling
Jimbo, and all
J�ai r�fl�chi aux �tapes propos�es par Villy et je les
approuve � quelques petits points pr�t. Les besoins
exprim�s actuellement semblent pouvoir �tre satisfaits
par des solutions temporaires (par exemple un � titre
� officiel pour Yann pour l�aider dans ses d�marches
ext�rieures, une donation temporaire de la foundation
ou de tout autre donateur pour l�impression de tracts
et de tee-shirts, une structure existant d�j� pour
l�impression de tee-shirts� � explorer). En attendant,
nous pourrions nous organiser du mieux possible.
I have been thinking of the planning proposed by
Villy, and it seems to be a good move to me. I made a
few changes in the proposition though. Indeed, the
current needs expressed in terms of a legal structure
do not require that we hurry (official position,
tee-shirt printing, funds by Wikimedia are directions
to explore), and the association would highly benefit
that we organise it the best we can.
The stages currently proposed are :
Etape 1 : juin juillet 2004-06-01
Mise en discussion de l�avant-projet de statuts de
WIKIMEDIA FRANCAIS.
Appel � candidatures pour constituer un comit� de
pilotage . Les membres du comit� de pilotage ont
vocation � �tre membres fondateurs de l�association et
payeront chaucn une somme de 20-25 � pour constituer
la premi�re caisse de l�association. Trois de ses
membres auront vocation � composer le futur conseil
d�administration temporaire. Le comit� de pilotage
aura seul autorit� pour valider le projet d�finitif de
statuts et pour faire les ajouts ou retranchements
n�cessaires � sa s�ret� juridique. Cependant, le
conseil d�administration sera �lu par tous les
contributeurs aux projets francophones.
Wiki discussion of the preliminary draft of statutes
of WIKIMEDIA FRANCAIS. Calling up of candidatures to
constitute a piloting project committee. The members
of this committee have vocation to be founder members
of the association and each of them will pay sum of
20-25 � to constitute the starting fund of the
association. Three of its members will have vocation
to compose the future temporary board of directors.
The piloting project committee will have alone
authority to validate the final draft of statutes and
to make the additions or cuttings off necessary to its
legal safety.
Election du comit� de pilotage, avant le 1er juillet
2004.
- Pourquoi un comit� de pilotage ?
Pour s�assurer que suffisement de participants sont
int�ress�s dans le projet d�une association. Le comit�
devra faire au moins 10 personnes par exemple (ou 15,
� discuter)
Si moins de 10 personnes se d�clarent int�ress�es par
une association, il y a de fortes chances pour que
l�association ne soit pas viable.
Par ailleurs, une personne faisant officiellement
partie d�un comit� de pilotage se sentira probablement
plus responsable de la r�ussite du projet et
participera d�avantage � sa mise en place. L�objectif
est que le � boulot � ne retombe pas uniquement dans
les mains de 2-3 personnes au final.
Enfin, certaines d�cisions avancent plus rapidement
quand elles sont prises en petits comit�s. L�objectif
est aussi d��viter les situations de blocage au cours
d�une �tape.
Election of the piloting project committee, before the
1rst of july 2004.
Why a governing committee ?
To ensure enough participants are interested in an
association project. The committee should be of at
least 10-15 participants.
If less than 10 persons are interested by setting up
an association, chances are that the association is
not viable.
Besides, a person officially involved in a committee
will feel more responsible of its success and will
participate more to its setting up. The goal is that
all the work does not fall back on 2 or 3 people only.
Finally, some decisions are taken more rapidly when in
small groups. The goal is also to avoid reaching
blocking stages.
- Pourquoi le 1er juillet ?
Afin de conserver une certaine structure � la visite
de Jimbo du 4 juillet. A cette occasion, il serait
int�ressant que la majeure partie du comit� de
pilotage soit � Paris (tous les participants sont bien
entendu cordialement invit�s � comit� ou pas).
Why the 1rst of july ?
To better structure Jimbo visit on the 4th of July. It
would be nice that most of those involved in the
committee try to be in Paris at this date (all
participants are welcome naturally)
- Comment sera pratiqu�e l��lection ?
D�pendra probablement du nombre de candidats
int�ress�s. Si le nombre est proche de 10, nous
reposerons sur un simple syst�me d�approbation (type
nommage au status de sysop, ce qui permettra
d��liminer les candidatures fantaisistes) . Si le
nombre d�int�ress�s est de 50 (on peut toujours
r�ver�.), un syst�me de vote pour lequel les 10-15
candidats les plus soutenus seront au comit� de
pilotage.
How will the organised the election ?
It will depends on the number of candidates
interested. If it is near 10, we could do a
approval/disapproval process (similar to admin status
approval, this to eliminate very unwelcome
candidacies. If the number is above 50 (dreamland), a
voting system will allow to vote for the candidates
most supported to the governing committee.
- d�p�t des candidatures : jusqu�au 15 juin.
Pour rappel, le comit� de pilotage a pour objectif de
travailler ensemble � mettre en place l�association.
C�est surtout une d�claration de motivation et
d�intention. Les candidats sont les bienvenus pour
donner plus d�information sur leur int�r�t pour le
comit� de pilotage, la participation qu�ils comptent
fournir, et le r�le qu�ils souhaiterait pour
l�association. Les candidats de tous pays sont les
bienvenus.
L�objectif de la petite description est 1) de discuter
les r�les de l�association et 2) v�rifier l�int�r�t
r�el de cette association et 3) s�assurer du niveau de
motivation individuel. A nouveau, r�p�tons le,
l�association demandera de l�investissement personnel,
plus nous serons nombreux, plus nous pourrons nous
r�partir le travail. Une association g�r�e par une
seule et unique personne est vou�e � l��chec. Une
association est n�cessairement un travail collectif.
End of candidacies : 15 of june
As a reminder, the goal of the governing committee is
to work together to set the association. It is mostly
an intent of willingness and motivation. Candidates
are welcome to give more information about their
interest in the governing committee, help they intend
to bring, and role they would be willing to have in
the association itself. Candidates of all countries
welcome.
The goal of the little description requested from
candidates is 1) to discuss the roles given to the
association 2) check the interest of setting up an
association 3) check individual interest. Again, the
association will ask time and energy. The more you
will be to work on it, the less work for each person
there will be; An association managed by only one
person is bound to failure. It is necessarily a
collectif effort.
- �lections : du 16 au 30 juin. Modalit�s � d�finir
L�objectif n�est pas de barrer les bonnes volont�s,
mais tout au plus d��liminer les candidatures
fantaisistes.
-Elections : from the 16 to 30 june. Modalities to
define. The goal is not to discourage people, but to
eliminate unwelcome candidacies (trolls...)
Etape 2 Juillet 2004 - Septembre 2004
Travail sur les statuts de l�association.
D�but de la recherche d�un partenariat bancaire pour
les dons (paiement en ligne) et le cas �ch�ant des
outils n�cessaires � la tenue d�un compte d�emploi
Work on bylaws. Beginning of the search for a banking
partnership for the donations (payment on line) and if
needed for the tools necessary to maintain a special
accountancy system (related to Frenc law on donations)
Etape 3 Octobre 2004
Validation du projet de statuts par le comit� de
pilotage.
Elections du conseil d�administration temporaire (pris
au sein des membres du comit� de pilotage) par la
totalit� des participants des projets francophones
(restriction d�anciennet�) ; int�gration de leurs noms
dans les statuts.
Exp�dition du projet � Jimbo Wales et Wikimedia
Foundation Inc. pour accord
Validation of the project of statutes by the piloting
project committee. Elections of the temporary board of
directors (candidates will be necessarily among
members of the piloting project) by all participants ;
integration of their names in the statutes. Forwarding
of the project to Jimbo Wales and Wikimedia Foundation
Inc.
Etape 4 Novembre 2004
Circularisation des statuts pour signature des
fondateurs (membres du comit� de pilotage)
Exp�dition des statuts sign�s � Jimbo Wales et
Wikimedia Foundation Inc. pour signature
A r�ception des statuts sign�s, d�claration de
l�association en pr�fecture et lancement d�une
campagne de communication sur l�adh�sion.
Circularization of the statutes for signature of the
founders (members of the piloting project committee).
Forwarding of the signed statutes with Jimbo Wales and
Wikimedia Foundation Inc for signature. When signed by
WF Inc., declaration of the association in prefecture
and launching of a communication campaign on adhesion.
Etape 5 D�cembre 2004
Mise en place de la comptabilit� pour les cotisations,
et le cas �ch�ant du compte d�emploi
Lancement de la campagne de dons
Installation of the accountancy for the contribution,
and if necessary of the special accountancy system
(i.e. for donations). Launching of a donation
campaign.
-------
Une association, �a se construit. Faut y mettre un peu
de sueur :-)
It is basically in your hands. Many people to work
with dedication -> an association. Three people to do
everything -> no association. Simple. Just "saying"
you want an association is not enough to make
everything work.
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"Daniel Mayer" <maveric149(a)yahoo.com> schrieb:
> --- Toby Bartels <toby+wikipedia(a)math.ucr.edu> wrote:
> > Mav's position, as he is stating it, is more extreme (and simply wrong IMO),
> > since he is claiming (I believe) that a noncopyleft licence like CC-sa
> > is not free to begin with. Still, mav does have a point, as I said here:
>
> If CC-sa = Creative Commons Attribution Share-alike license, then I think you
> are confused (or at least made a typo). The CC by-sa is in fact more
> libre/copyleft than the GNU FDL since it does not have provisions for invariant
> sections. Thus its copyleft status is more permanent. The CC-by license is
> merely gratis with the only real requirement being attribution.
It's NOT free, you say? So, I may not use it freely? You DO have a strange
definition of 'free'.
> > So mav can reasonably argue (along with the FSF) that a copyleft licence
> > increases freedom overall, because it enforces freedom for derivative works.
> > But it does not increase the freedom of the ''original'' document --
> > as even the FSF would agree -- and could only decrease ''that'' freedom.
> > (And that was your point, Andre, which I agree with.)
>
> Decrease that freedom? How when anything from a derivative work can be
> reincorporated back into the original? In what way does that decrease the
> freedom of the original document?
By restricting how it may be used. What other way could there be to decrease
freedom?
Andre Engels
"Daniel Mayer" <maveric149(a)yahoo.com> schrieb:
> > What is the difference between free and copyleft?
> > Fundamentally, a document is free if ''it'' may be used freely:
> > freely read, freely copied, freely modified, and freely distributed
> > (see <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html>
> > or <http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines>).
> > A document is copyleft if ''its derivatives'' may be used freely.
>
> When I say 'free' I mean free as in cost and free as in freedom.
Well, then the non-copyleft free licenses should fall under that
definition as least as much as copyleft ones. There's no difference
in cost (the only difference would be non-commercial licenses, which
neither of you seem to be advocating), and in freedom they're more
free.
> >...
> > We can have this argument, but let's be clear about what we're arguing over.
> > AFAIK, ''nobody'' is advocating that Wikimedia publish non-free articles.
> > (There is the issue of incorporating fair use items ''within'' articles,
> > such as quotations and images, but that is a different discussion.)
> > The question is whether their freedom must be protected by copyleft.
>
> I'm advocating the full use of the word free (no cost and copyleft).
Then you have a strange meaning of 'free'.
"You may do with it what you want, provided you mention my name" is
more free than "You may do with it what you want, provided you mention
my name and give others the same rights and obligations".
Andre Engels
Jimmy Wales wrote:
>I have from Alex the US trademark application, which I will be filing
>today.
>
That's very good to hear, my thanks to Alex for handling that.
--Michael Snow
> > Pourquoi faut-il une association ?
Why an associaation ?
Yann said
> I think that a more progressive start, and therefore
> starting early is
> possible.
> Creating an organisation is necessary. For already
> one year, I make speeches
> and talks about Wikipedia without any official
> mandate, but this is already
> awkward and it is becoming very inconvenient.
>
> Je pense qu'une croissance progressive est possible,
> et donc de commencer
> plut�t.
> Cr�er une association est n�cessaire. Depuis un an,
> je fais des conf�rences
> sur Wikip�dia sans aucun mandat officiel, mais cela
> est d�j� embarassant, et
> �a devient vraiment g�nant.
Il est important de signaler Yann, que sur la fr: tout
le monde semble te faire confiance pour ta
participation dans les multiples conf�rences. Je pense
que si tu avais besoin pressant d'un support officiel,
Jimbo te l'apporterait publiquement sans probl�me et
nous aussi.
Cela �tant, dans l'attente d'une association, et ce
pour tous les projects sans association, c'est une des
raisons pour lesquelles mettre en place des positions
officielles au sein de la foundation am�ricaine est
important. Il faut que certains puissent se pr�senter
comme porteur de la parole wikipedia officiellement
pour notre �volution.
I'd like to remind you Yann, that everyone on fr;
trust you for your PR activities. If you had an urgent
need for official support, Jimbo would publicly
brought it I think.
This said, as long as a project does not have an
association, it is very important that the foundation
set a collection of official positions and officially
declare trust for several users. It is important that
we say "we trust these people to speak for Wikimedia"
to the outside. Editors should be trusted to speak for
wikipedia, the foundation should help and not speak
for editors.
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Angela wrote:
> --- Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)bomis.com> wrote:
>
>
>>It is very poor form, at the very least,
>>for them to call themselves "A Wikipedia".
>>They may be a Wiki, they may be a Wiki Encyclopedia,
>>but they are not "A Wikipedia".
>>
>>
>I have some excellent news. After contacting the
>Diagonal Media Group, the parent company of
>PhatNav.com, they have replaced the claim that they
>are "A Wikipedia" with a more appropriate title for
>their pages. Wikipedia, and the Wikimedia Foundation,
>are, of course, still linked to at the end of each
>page.
>
Excellent news indeed - thank you for your work, Angela. At least on
this occasion, nobody will be able to say that we don't protect our
trademarks. There remain, of course, the questions of whether, when, and
where to register those trademarks, an issue I expect the board will
take up once it is fully constituted.
--Michael Snow
--- Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)bomis.com> wrote:
> It is very poor form, at the very least,
> for them to call themselves "A Wikipedia".
> They may be a Wiki, they may be a Wiki Encyclopedia,
> but they are not "A Wikipedia".
I have some excellent news. After contacting the
Diagonal Media Group, the parent company of
PhatNav.com, they have replaced the claim that they
are "A Wikipedia" with a more appropriate title for
their pages. Wikipedia, and the Wikimedia Foundation,
are, of course, still linked to at the end of each
page.
Angela.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Angela
------------------------------------------------
>From: "Diagonal Media Group Service Desk"
<service(a)diagonalmediagroup.com>
>Subject: Trademark violation
>Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 21:00:54 -0400
>Thank you Angela.
>I'm forwarding this to my engineer.
>The wording on the top of the pages was to have
>changed. I'm sure he can make this change.
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