In a message dated 11/29/2009 12:55:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,
fredbaud(a)fairpoint.net writes:
> The media, in the United States at least, has a constitutionally
> guaranteed right to not be fair.>>
My use of the word "fair" was to be applied to ourselves, not to the media.
It is not fair for us to decide that because someone else might do
something, that we must do something pre-emptive.
Anybody might do anything. That doesn't mean we *must* take action on
something that may occur. That is the slope to which I was referring. And that
is the fairness or lack thereof that I see in this situation.
Is pedophilia the sole property against which we have this supposed (but so
far completely undocumented) procedure? Numerous times this so-called
policy has been requested only to be redirected to in some cases, statements
that say the exact opposite. Funny isn't it? Memory is a tricky thing.
In a message dated 11/29/2009 5:45:02 AM Pacific Standard Time,
fredbaud(a)fairpoint.net writes:
> But then, if Ryan could do it, anyone, including an
> investigative journalist could have done it.>>
But you're assuming that they could then apply "guilt by association" which
would throw egg on our face and I'm not sure that's a very fair slope to
try to climb.
In a message dated 11/29/2009 11:43:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,
fredbaud(a)fairpoint.net writes:
> We don't block incarcerated prisoners. Prisons do that, to protect
> themselves and the public. Prisoners know how to do online fraud, and are
> good at it.>>
*Some* prisons do it, some do the exact opposite.
http://www.google.com/search?q=internet+access+prison&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&
aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
Hello folks,
this is a suggestion to encourage more edits. It is both a topic for
every of our projects but also of most of the foundation projects. So I
post it here at first and will welcome everyone to carry it to the
single projects.
On the home page of our projects for example en-wp we have the column
"Did you know..." where we feature the new created articles. The idea is
to create a column where we put in articles that does not exist or that
are stubs and should be improved.
The column look like:
Can you tell us about ...
* the pianist [[Veryan Weston]]
* the [[Kansas City Philamonics]]
* the bird [[Black-eared Seedeater]]
etc.
The column should be at a prominant place so that every visitor can see
it. The requested articles can be selected by multiple ways, the
community can discuss the way and establish a procedure.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Veryan_Weston&action=edit&redlink…>
--
Ting
Ting's Blog: http://wingphilopp.blogspot.com/
In a message dated 11/26/2009 11:37:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,
george.herbert(a)gmail.com writes:
We have the Mediators, arbcom, and experienced non-admin editors
around too. Anyone who thinks admins can run roughshod over users
should watch ANI for a while. We aren't great about self-policing -
but we do it.>>
--------------------------
But George you miss part of my point.
IF editors know their way around somewhat, they *could* fight an undeserved
block or reprimand or whatever.
But what you're saying here is exactly what I'm pointing out that we do not
want.
Encyclopedists are not necessarily expert game players, but we're requiring
them to learn how.
We shouldn't be. That was my point.
We should not be requiring every 95 pound weakling who shows up and runs
afoul of the 400 pound gorilla to try to learn how to fight it. Even to try
to find their way to AN/I, which is not an obvious thing at all in my mind.
In a message dated 11/26/2009 3:39:23 AM Pacific Standard Time,
valdelli(a)gmail.com writes:
> The final solution is that only people who are already expert in the
> processes can impose their point of view and in fact en.wikipedia
> don't assure a neutral point of view but the point of view of expert
> users.>>
Exactly the same point I've made a few times. Those who are expert in the
use of the game rules, impose their view on those who are not expert.
Which is why I've suggested the establishment of a group of advocates for
the editor versus the administrators who are viewed as policemen. In a real
society, the only classifications are not "public" and "police". We also
have checks and balances against the power of the police to force compliance.
In Wikipedia we do not have those checks and balances.
Will
We had that. They called themselves the "Association
of Member's Advocates." They were disbanded because
everyone saw them as a huge waste of time with 0 net
benefit.
-Chad
On Nov 26, 2009 8:56 PM, <wjhonson(a)aol.com> wrote:
I already pointed out that you cannot impose "friendliness". Our current
state is one in which any particular admin may sit on any particular editor
with or without adequate cause and that editor has nearly no power to affect
a hearing. There is no advocate for the editors who are not admins.
Until that situation changes, we cannot claim to be moving toward a friendly
environment.
What we need is an Office of the Editor Advocate. Any arrested person has
the right to an attorney, provided free of charge by the state. That is
what we need. Advocate-attorneys who are on the side of the arrested
editor.
_______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@lists...
Read http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/11/25/160236/Contributors-Leaving-Wikiped…
Article is based on Felipe Ortega's research. There are two claims
from this article:
1. English-language version of Wikipedia suffered a net loss of 49,000
contributors, compared with a loss of about 4,900 during the same
period in 2008
2. There is an increase of bureaucracy and rules.
I would like to hear from Felipe clarification of the claim that
49,000 contributors left Wikipedia. If it is so, then en.wp has around
ten times more fluctuation of contributors. (According to statistics
[1], there are no significant changes between the first months of 2008
and 2009.) If it is so, we should try to understand why is it so.
The second claim produced a lot of *relevant* testimonies from
Wikipedian work. Please, read them. For the first time I see highly
relevant discussion on Slashdot about Wikipedia structure. All of them
are talking about current problems of Wikipedia.
Problems are now visible at such level, that main stream media are
talking about them [2]. I would say that we need some radical moves to
stop current negative trends inside of the projects. Which? I don't
know. We should think about them. (Actually, I have a couple of
possible changes in my mind, which are not radical. However, their
implementation would need radical changes. Because of bureaucracy.)
[1] - http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/ChartsWikipediaEN.htm
[2] - http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article69…
Reminder: Strategic Planning office hours will happen at:
04:00-05:00 UTC, Wednesday 25 November.
That is:
Tuesday, 8-9 pm PDT
Wednesday, 11pm - 12am EDT
We'll meet in the channel #wikimedia-strategy on IRC. More details
are available at http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_Office_Hours
You can access the chat by going to https://webchat.freenode.net/ and
filling in a username and the channel name (#wikimedia-strategy). You
may be prompted to click through a security warning. It's fine.
Another option is http://chat.wikizine.org.
Join us!
____________________
Philippe Beaudette
Facilitator, Strategic Planning
Wikimedia Foundation
philippe(a)wikimedia.org
Imagine a world in which every human being can freely share in
the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
We started a new regular feature on the strategy wiki: Question of the
week. Every Monday, the page will highlight some data and open up a
question for discussion. In the middle of the week, we'll draw up
scenarios based on the discussion, and ask people to prioritize them.
We'll also discuss these questions at our weekly IRC office hours.
The first question is at:
http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Question_of_the_week
Please join the discussion there, and spread the word! Thanks!
=Eugene
--
======================================================================
Eugene Eric Kim ................................ http://xri.net/=eekim
Blue Oxen Associates ........................ http://www.blueoxen.com/
======================================================================