>> What I find very interesting is to see that most projects follow the
>> same pattern of growth; so, by far, most bubbles stick together, except
>> for an occasional freely-willed bubble.
> You may just be seeing an artefact of the logarithmic vertical scale -
> does "a factor of 10" count as sticking together?
Of course a logarithmic scale tends to mask 'nuances', precisely because it
squeezes widely diverging values.
As Brion already explained:
"A logarithmic scale is basically the only way you're going to see the
smaller ones at all --
on a linear scale they'd be totally dwarfed by the few biggest."
On second thought, why not have both? You can now switch between lineair and
logarithmic scale.
And in lineair mode you can resize the vertical scale so that smaller
projects can be followed.
New version for now as Firefox 3 interactive version only. Not yet recorded
as Flash.
http://infodisiac.com/Wikipedia/Wikistats/AnimationProjectsGrowthWp.html
Erik Zachte
My mistake. Maybe we need a crash course in basic latin at wikiversity. :D
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Williamson <node.ue(a)gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 12:16:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Allow new wikis in extinct languages?
That's patently untrue, we do not have an "excellent" Latin WP. That's
why we have Latinitas templates - to label articles written in crappy
Latin. If that Wiki had been started and maintained by classics
professors rather than having many of its pages filled by pimply
teenagers who took a couple of semesters of Latin, I'm sure there
would be no need.
On 29/03/2008, Geoffrey Plourde <geo.plrd(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> So? No one speaks latin as a native language, but we have an excellent latin WP. If worst comes to worst, Wikiversity will need to have crash courses in <language name here>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mark Williamson <node.ue(a)gmail.com>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 11:45:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Allow new wikis in extinct languages?
>
> Umm... 100 people who learnt as much Hupa in a classroom as I have
> learnt O'odham would probably put together a Wiki in really crappy
> Hupa. That is the problem.
>
> Mark
>
> On 29/03/2008, Geoffrey Plourde <geo.plrd(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Why do we need natives? Just because someone natively speaks Chumash does not mean that there will be enough interest for a wiki. If enough people are willing to display an interest in Hupa, who are we to nitpick?
> >
> > Mark Williamson <node.ue(a)gmail.com> wrote: How about native - where applicable? I think it is a great
> >
> > requirement... except when it comes to languages with no native
> > speakers. Then we should require fluent speakers, not just interested
> > hobbyists who use a dictionary like Jose77.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > On 29/03/2008, Geoffrey Plourde wrote:
> > > Yes I agree strike native and lets go back to if enough people are interested.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Marcus Buck
> >
> > > To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> >
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 4:47:52 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Allow new wikis in extinct languages?
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > But that is my opinion. What do you think; should wikis be allowed in
> > > > every extinct language?
> > >
> > > In my opinion, Pathoschild is a bit unhonest here. As far as I know,
> > > nobody ever proposed to allow _every_ language. His post on this list is
> > > based on the discussion here:
> >
> > > .
> > >
> > > Somebody proposed a Wikipedia in Classical Greek a long time ago and the
> > > proposal was rejected based on the "Language proposal policy", which
> > > does not allow for projects in languages with no native speakers. But
> > > actually the word "native" was inserted by Pathoschild only in October
> > > 2007. At that time the proposal for a Classical Greek project was
> > > already running for 14 months.
> > >
> > > The current policy wouldn't allow for a Wikipedia in Latin nor for a
> > > Wikipedia in Esperanto. I think, this is proof, that the current policy
> > > is failing. If the UN (hypothetically) would adopt a new constructed
> > > language as new worldwide lingua franca, there would be no way no create
> > > a wikipedia in this world language under current policy until this
> > > language would develop a native community, which would take some decades
> > > at least. The policy fails.
> > >
> > > Get rid of the word "native" in the policy. Base decisions on the
> > > ability to build a viable and useful resource and not on physical
> > > features of the language.
> > > In my opinion Classical Greek can form a viable community and build a
> > > useful resource. Some of you may think "He only wants to push his pet
> > > language Greek!" No, I actually have nothing to do with Greek and I
> > > prefer spoken languages to scholarly languages. I only jumped into the
> > > discussion, cause I realized Greek was about to go being denied for
> > > reasons of policy-nitpicking only.
> > >
> > > Marcus Buck
> > > Slomox
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> > >
> > > ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > >
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> > > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text4.com
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
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> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> >
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> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>
> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
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So? No one speaks latin as a native language, but we have an excellent latin WP. If worst comes to worst, Wikiversity will need to have crash courses in <language name here>
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Williamson <node.ue(a)gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 11:45:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Allow new wikis in extinct languages?
Umm... 100 people who learnt as much Hupa in a classroom as I have
learnt O'odham would probably put together a Wiki in really crappy
Hupa. That is the problem.
Mark
On 29/03/2008, Geoffrey Plourde <geo.plrd(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> Why do we need natives? Just because someone natively speaks Chumash does not mean that there will be enough interest for a wiki. If enough people are willing to display an interest in Hupa, who are we to nitpick?
>
> Mark Williamson <node.ue(a)gmail.com> wrote: How about native - where applicable? I think it is a great
>
> requirement... except when it comes to languages with no native
> speakers. Then we should require fluent speakers, not just interested
> hobbyists who use a dictionary like Jose77.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On 29/03/2008, Geoffrey Plourde wrote:
> > Yes I agree strike native and lets go back to if enough people are interested.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Marcus Buck
>
> > To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>
> > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 4:47:52 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Allow new wikis in extinct languages?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > But that is my opinion. What do you think; should wikis be allowed in
> > > every extinct language?
> >
> > In my opinion, Pathoschild is a bit unhonest here. As far as I know,
> > nobody ever proposed to allow _every_ language. His post on this list is
> > based on the discussion here:
>
> > .
> >
> > Somebody proposed a Wikipedia in Classical Greek a long time ago and the
> > proposal was rejected based on the "Language proposal policy", which
> > does not allow for projects in languages with no native speakers. But
> > actually the word "native" was inserted by Pathoschild only in October
> > 2007. At that time the proposal for a Classical Greek project was
> > already running for 14 months.
> >
> > The current policy wouldn't allow for a Wikipedia in Latin nor for a
> > Wikipedia in Esperanto. I think, this is proof, that the current policy
> > is failing. If the UN (hypothetically) would adopt a new constructed
> > language as new worldwide lingua franca, there would be no way no create
> > a wikipedia in this world language under current policy until this
> > language would develop a native community, which would take some decades
> > at least. The policy fails.
> >
> > Get rid of the word "native" in the policy. Base decisions on the
> > ability to build a viable and useful resource and not on physical
> > features of the language.
> > In my opinion Classical Greek can form a viable community and build a
> > useful resource. Some of you may think "He only wants to push his pet
> > language Greek!" No, I actually have nothing to do with Greek and I
> > prefer spoken languages to scholarly languages. I only jumped into the
> > discussion, cause I realized Greek was about to go being denied for
> > reasons of policy-nitpicking only.
> >
> > Marcus Buck
> > Slomox
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Like movies? Here's a limited-time offer: Blockbuster Total Access for one month at no cost.
> > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text4.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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Yes I agree strike native and lets go back to if enough people are interested.
----- Original Message ----
From: Marcus Buck <me(a)marcusbuck.org>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 4:47:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Allow new wikis in extinct languages?
>
> But that is my opinion. What do you think; should wikis be allowed in
> every extinct language?
In my opinion, Pathoschild is a bit unhonest here. As far as I know,
nobody ever proposed to allow _every_ language. His post on this list is
based on the discussion here:
<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Language_subcommittee#Latina_Wikipedia_…>.
Somebody proposed a Wikipedia in Classical Greek a long time ago and the
proposal was rejected based on the "Language proposal policy", which
does not allow for projects in languages with no native speakers. But
actually the word "native" was inserted by Pathoschild only in October
2007. At that time the proposal for a Classical Greek project was
already running for 14 months.
The current policy wouldn't allow for a Wikipedia in Latin nor for a
Wikipedia in Esperanto. I think, this is proof, that the current policy
is failing. If the UN (hypothetically) would adopt a new constructed
language as new worldwide lingua franca, there would be no way no create
a wikipedia in this world language under current policy until this
language would develop a native community, which would take some decades
at least. The policy fails.
Get rid of the word "native" in the policy. Base decisions on the
ability to build a viable and useful resource and not on physical
features of the language.
In my opinion Classical Greek can form a viable community and build a
useful resource. Some of you may think "He only wants to push his pet
language Greek!" No, I actually have nothing to do with Greek and I
prefer spoken languages to scholarly languages. I only jumped into the
discussion, cause I realized Greek was about to go being denied for
reasons of policy-nitpicking only.
Marcus Buck
Slomox
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____________________________________________________________________________________
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But reviving a language does fulfill the mission as it brings the sum of all knowledge to everyone. Also, lawyers generally don't read Chumash. :D
----- Original Message ----
From: "daniwo59(a)aol.com" <daniwo59(a)aol.com>
To: foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 4:08:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Allow new wikis in extinct languages?
In a message dated 3/29/2008 5:10:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pathoschild(a)gmail.com writes:
But that is my opinion. What do you think; should wikis be allowed in
every extinct language?
To help me think about this question, I pulled out my handy dandy "Manual of
Akkadian" (David Marcus University Press of America, 1978) to see if I could
translate anything on the Main Page. Unless there is some news report of
Babylonian (Iraqi) troops from Nineveh (Mosul) attacking Ur (Basra) with
iron-clad mules (tanks), it would be pretty much impossible, even if you can type in
cuneiform. Certain languages simply don't have the ability to relay modern
ideas, which is, essentially, what an encyclopedia should cover. If you had to
make up words for virtually every concept that did not exist in the Fertile
Crescent in 2000 BC, it would either not be an encyclopedia or not be
Akkadian.
Danny
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom0…)
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____________________________________________________________________________________
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>
> But that is my opinion. What do you think; should wikis be allowed in
> every extinct language?
In my opinion, Pathoschild is a bit unhonest here. As far as I know,
nobody ever proposed to allow _every_ language. His post on this list is
based on the discussion here:
<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Language_subcommittee#Latina_Wikipedia_…>.
Somebody proposed a Wikipedia in Classical Greek a long time ago and the
proposal was rejected based on the "Language proposal policy", which
does not allow for projects in languages with no native speakers. But
actually the word "native" was inserted by Pathoschild only in October
2007. At that time the proposal for a Classical Greek project was
already running for 14 months.
The current policy wouldn't allow for a Wikipedia in Latin nor for a
Wikipedia in Esperanto. I think, this is proof, that the current policy
is failing. If the UN (hypothetically) would adopt a new constructed
language as new worldwide lingua franca, there would be no way no create
a wikipedia in this world language under current policy until this
language would develop a native community, which would take some decades
at least. The policy fails.
Get rid of the word "native" in the policy. Base decisions on the
ability to build a viable and useful resource and not on physical
features of the language.
In my opinion Classical Greek can form a viable community and build a
useful resource. Some of you may think "He only wants to push his pet
language Greek!" No, I actually have nothing to do with Greek and I
prefer spoken languages to scholarly languages. I only jumped into the
discussion, cause I realized Greek was about to go being denied for
reasons of policy-nitpicking only.
Marcus Buck
Slomox
The last World Economic Forum in Davos released on Flickr some pictures
about "very important people" with a free license compatible with Commons.
It seems that they intentionally released such pictures to be uploaded on
Commons, as this seems to be confirmed at
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Benjism89/WEF
and at http://blog.anthere.org/
Unfortunately, many people on Commons don't believed that this might be true
and the view uploaded images were requested for deletion ( See
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Project%3AWEF )
This situation should be clarified as soon as possible, otherwise all
uploaded pictures on Commons from WEF might be deleted, and it would be
really a pity.
Guérin Nicolas
*Thus, the overriding purpose of allowing a wiki in a new language *
*is to make it accessible to more human beings. *
**
*Typically, the users requesting a wiki in an extinct language don't
want to provide educational material to more people at all, but only
want to promote or revive the language.*
**
Hold on: I see systemic bias at work.
European languages are already far better represented than other parts of
the world. So if WMF implements a cap now, the Cornish Wikipedia (with zero
native speakers) would continue to grow past its current 1500 articles,
but....
The Hopi language has no Wikipedia. It's got about 5000 native speakers so
it'd still have a chance.
The Mohawk language has 3000 speakers, but you're saying if they can't prove
some of those are native speakers they shouldn't get the chance?
A grandfather clause won't work. Either we accept the precedent and extend
it equally or we shut down some of the Wikipedias we already have. I prefer
the former.
-Durova
In a message dated 3/29/2008 5:10:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pathoschild(a)gmail.com writes:
But that is my opinion. What do you think; should wikis be allowed in
every extinct language?
To help me think about this question, I pulled out my handy dandy "Manual of
Akkadian" (David Marcus University Press of America, 1978) to see if I could
translate anything on the Main Page. Unless there is some news report of
Babylonian (Iraqi) troops from Nineveh (Mosul) attacking Ur (Basra) with
iron-clad mules (tanks), it would be pretty much impossible, even if you can type in
cuneiform. Certain languages simply don't have the ability to relay modern
ideas, which is, essentially, what an encyclopedia should cover. If you had to
make up words for virtually every concept that did not exist in the Fertile
Crescent in 2000 BC, it would either not be an encyclopedia or not be
Akkadian.
Danny
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom0…)