I speak as a big fan of and participant in Wikimedia Commons.
But: Is it time to deprecate Commons as a WMF service project? It's
clearly failing and the local "community" is actively hostile to
contributors from other wikis.
Commons appears to have forgotten it was created as a service project
for other WMF wikis. It's not doing the job any more.
Discussions please. (Not denial that this problem is a problem, thanks.)
- d.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Lars Aronsson <lars(a)aronsson.se>
Date: 2008/12/6
Subject: Re: [Commons-l] Making Wikimedia Commons less frightening
To: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List <commons-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Patricia Rodrigues wrote:
> That's a wonderful idea! But many times our main problem is the
> lack of manpower in different languages to actually address
> different users.
The more I think about this human side of the problem, the more I
think we should go back to local uploading. The forwarding to
Commons could be implemented by adding a "category:Suitable for
Commons" and a bot that scans this category. Then if the image is
deleted from Commons, the local copy would still exist.
If we want Wikipedia to scale from the narrow nerd community to a
wider society, including elderly, we need to greet them with
respect and in their own language. I don't see how we could
manage this on Commons, even if uploaded images were marked with
the uploader's interface language. We will always have the narrow
nerd community too, which can act as admins and an interface
towards the international community.
--
Lars Aronsson (lars(a)aronsson.se)
Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
_______________________________________________
Commons-l mailing list
Commons-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
As per earlier comments, I've posted a first set of Questions and
Answers related to a possible licensing update from GFDL to CC-BY-SA
as the primary content license (with GFDL retained as a secondary
license) for Wikimedia Foundation projects, here:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Licensing_update/Questions_and_Answers
This is intended to be an iterative process, so please add questions
directly to the page, if you want. In the understanding that this Q&A
is meant to reflect the Wikimedia Foundation's position on these
issues, please feel free to help flesh out and clarify the answers.
Once the document has stabilized, I'll also send out a note that it's
ready for translation.
We'll follow up with a "proposal for a proposal", per the Q&A, by
January 15, 2009.
--
Erik Möller
Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
Dear folks,
Yale has contacted me seeking ideas for student research projects
relating to their Access to Knowledge program (it's affiliated with
the Yale Information Society Project). I thought I'd pass that
request on to you -- I figured many of you have some ideas about
questions Yale law students could research on free information and
free culture.
Yale and WMF have an affiliation that's now in its second year -- we
like to help them out when we can, and they remain solid supporters of
our work, so we'd be grateful if you could share any access-to-
knowledge research ideas with us (either privately to me or publicly
on this list).
--Mike
________________________________
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To: foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 4:00:05 AM
Subject: foundation-l Digest, Vol 57, Issue 65
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Today's Topics:
1. Neeru Khosla to Become Wikipedia Advisor (Jay Walsh)
2. Re: Report to the Board of Trustees: October 2008 (Erik Moeller)
3. Re: Report to the Board of Trustees: October 2008
(effe iets anders)
4. Re: and what if... (Delirium)
5. Re: Report to the Board of Trustees: October 2008
(Gerard Meijssen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:24:06 -0800
From: Jay Walsh <jwalsh(a)wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Foundation-l] Neeru Khosla to Become Wikipedia Advisor
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <DE2C0F68-BB6D-432F-AD61-81607AD384D3(a)wikimedia.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Hi all - passing this on. We sent out this press release earlier today.
Thanks!
Jay, Communications
>
> ''Neeru Khosla to Become Wikipedia Advisor''
>
> Philanthropist and education pioneer joins non-profit's Advisory Board
>
> San Francisco CA December 15, 2008 -- The Wikimedia Foundation, the
> non-profit organization behind the web encyclopedia Wikipedia, today
> announced the appointment of Neeru Khosla to its Advisory Board.
> Khosla is co-founder and chair of CK-12, a non-profit based in Palo
> Alto, California which is pioneering the concept of "open source
> textbooks." In September, the U.S. state of Virginia announced a
> collaboration with CK-12 to produce an open source physics textbook,
> a major coup for the young non-profit organization.
>
> "I am delighted that Neeru is joining us," said Michael Snow,
> Chairman of the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees. "In addition
> to her understanding of the educational arena both in the United
> States and elsewhere, Neeru is experienced with the challenges of
> building and leading non-profit organizations. As we grow and
> evolve, her expertise will be enormously valuable and welcomed."
>
> The Wikimedia Foundation, which operates the volunteer-written
> encyclopedia with a staff of just under 25 people, created its
> Advisory Board in January 2007 as a mechanism for input from leaders
> and thinkers in fields like education, technology, and free culture.
> Advisory Board members convene with Wikimedia's leadership once a
> year and also support the organization in their specific areas of
> expertise.
>
> "When people want to learn things online, they go to Wikipedia
> first," said Neeru Khosla. "It's absolutely clear to me that anyone
> who cares about education online should seriously consider how they
> can help Wikipedia do an even better job. It's an important cause,
> and I'm more than happy to volunteer."
>
> In March 2008, the Wikimedia Foundation received a $500,000 donation
> from Vinod and Neeru Khosla.
>
> The current Advisory Board membership includes:
>
> * Angela Beesley (Chair, Wikimedia Advisory Board; co-founder,
> Wikia)
> * Ward Cunningham (Developer of the first wiki)
> * Heather Ford (Executive director, iCommons)
> * Debbie Garside (Multi-lingual web pioneer)
> * Melissa Hagemann (Open Access advocate)
> * Danny Hillis (Engineer, author, inventor)
> * Mitch Kapor (Founder/Co-founder Lotus Developments, EFF,
> Mozilla Foundation)
> * Neeru Khosla (Co-founder, CK-12)
> * Teemu Leinonen (Head, Learning Environments research group of
> the Media Lab, University of Art and Design Helsinki)
> * Rebecca MacKinnon (Journalist; founder, Global Voices Online)
> * Wayne Mackintosh (Education specialist, Commonwealth of Learning)
> * Benjamin Mako Hill (Author, free software advocate)
> * Erin McKean (Chief consulting editor, American Dictionaries at
> Oxford University Press)
> * Trevor Neilson (Partner, Global Philanthropy Group)
> * Florence Nibart-Devouard (Former Chair, Wikimedia Foundation
> Board of Trustees; Scientist)
> * Achal Prabhala (Journalist and researcher)
> * Jay Rosen (Journalist, author, educator)
> * Clay Shirky (Author, consultant, educator)
> * Peter Suber (Open Access advocate)
> * Raoul Weiler (ICT advocate)
> * Ethan Zuckerman (Research Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet
> and Society at Harvard Law School)
>
> For more information, visit: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Advisory_Board
>
> ''About the Wikimedia Foundation and Wikipedia''
> wikimediafoundation.org
> wikipedia.org
>
> The Wikimedia Foundation is the non-profit organization which
> operates Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. According to comScore,
> Wikipedia and the other projects operated by the Wikimedia
> Foundation receive more than 270 million unique visitors per month,
> making them the 4th most popular web property world-wide. Available
> in more than 265 languages, Wikipedia provides more than 11 million
> articles contributed by a global volunteer community of more than
> 100,000 people. Based in San Francisco, California, the Wikimedia
> Foundation is an audited, 501(c)(3) charity that is funded primarily
> through donations and grants.
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:54:01 -0800
From: "Erik Moeller" <erik(a)wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Report to the Board of Trustees: October
2008
To: effeietsanders(a)gmail.com, "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID:
<b80736c80812151254l5aac0555i3db3d03682ab8433(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
2008/12/14 effe iets anders <effeietsanders(a)gmail.com>:
> But also have a small additional suggestion. Would it be nice to the
> chapters to have somewhere a list of all major software WMF is using? As a
> suggestion list? For example, GIMP for promotional images editing etc, so
> that the chapters have an easier time looking for free software on
> accounting etc. Would be great!
I started a page for this purpose a while ago:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FLOSS-Exchange
We have a mixed Mac/Linux office environment. We're not currently
using open source software for accounting and for more complex design
work. Most calendaring is done via Google right now.
--
Erik M?ller
Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:11:09 +0100
From: "effe iets anders" <effeietsanders(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Report to the Board of Trustees: October
2008
To: "Erik Moeller" <erik(a)wikimedia.org>
Cc: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID:
<73f3ff1b0812151411l1067be07y2c16acde1d1b599f(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Nice page. But could you perhaps also list the non-free software used there
sometime, so that the community could suggest otherwise? :)
2008/12/15 Erik Moeller <erik(a)wikimedia.org>
> 2008/12/14 effe iets anders <effeietsanders(a)gmail.com>:
> > But also have a small additional suggestion. Would it be nice to the
> > chapters to have somewhere a list of all major software WMF is using? As
> a
> > suggestion list? For example, GIMP for promotional images editing etc, so
> > that the chapters have an easier time looking for free software on
> > accounting etc. Would be great!
>
> I started a page for this purpose a while ago:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FLOSS-Exchange
>
> We have a mixed Mac/Linux office environment. We're not currently
> using open source software for accounting and for more complex design
> work. Most calendaring is done via Google right now.
> --
> Erik M?ller
> Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:57:28 -0800
From: Delirium <delirium(a)hackish.org>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] and what if...
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <49473538.6080601(a)hackish.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
David Gerard wrote:
> It
> would be novel indeed to have a Holocaust denier who wasn't a crank as
> an editor, but I don't expect it to happen any time soon.
>
You'd be surprised, then. If you're talking about Holocaust-denial
*activists*, trying to edit articles to encompass that point of view,
then sure. But normal people who believe the Holocaust either didn't
happen or was overblown, but realize their view is a minority one and
edit in other areas? We have quite a few, especially editors from Arab
countries.
-Mark
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 08:54:35 +0100
From: "Gerard Meijssen" <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Report to the Board of Trustees: October
2008
To: effeietsanders(a)gmail.com, "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"
<foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID:
<41a006820812152354v2023bf38q61b975f34b3a10c7(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hoi,
When you run an organisation, stability in procedures ensures that you get
work done. Procedures are to a large part dependent on the tools that are
used. If anything it is disruptive to have to continually assess
alternatives in software because of external factors. It is also expensive
and I do say that there is enough where the WMF underspends.
Thanks,
Gerard
2008/12/15 effe iets anders <effeietsanders(a)gmail.com>
> Nice page. But could you perhaps also list the non-free software used there
> sometime, so that the community could suggest otherwise? :)
>
> 2008/12/15 Erik Moeller <erik(a)wikimedia.org>
>
> > 2008/12/14 effe iets anders <effeietsanders(a)gmail.com>:
> > > But also have a small additional suggestion. Would it be nice to the
> > > chapters to have somewhere a list of all major software WMF is using?
> As
> > a
> > > suggestion list? For example, GIMP for promotional images editing etc,
> so
> > > that the chapters have an easier time looking for free software on
> > > accounting etc. Would be great!
> >
> > I started a page for this purpose a while ago:
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/FLOSS-Exchange
> >
> > We have a mixed Mac/Linux office environment. We're not currently
> > using open source software for accounting and for more complex design
> > work. Most calendaring is done via Google right now.
> > --
> > Erik M?ller
> > Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation
> >
> > Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
------------------------------
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End of foundation-l Digest, Vol 57, Issue 65
********************************************
I see that the BBC reports their Chinese language site is again blocked
in China. They mention some other sites but nothing about Wikipedia.
Could anyone summarize what the current situation is for accessing
Wikipedia there? Especially zh.wikipedia.org, of course, but also other
languages.
--Michael Snow
Hey folks,
Here is the RTTB for October. November will follow soon :-)
Enjoy!
Sue
Report to the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
Covering: October 2008
Prepared by: Sue Gardner, Executive Director, Wikimedia Foundation
Prepared for: Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
MY CURRENT PRIORITIES
1. Planning for Bangalore and Davos trips
2. Finalization of staff goals and performance check-ins
3. Planning for development of the strategic plan
4. Ongoing major donor solicitation and stewardship, foundation proposal
follow-up
5. Bits and pieces (all-staff meeting, CPO recruitment, Wikimania 2008
postmortem, office space revamp, Board Nominating Committee, etc.)
THIS PAST MONTH
BOARD MEETING
The Board met the first weekend of October at the WMF offices in San
Francisco, with all Board members in attendance. During the meeting, the
Board reviewed and approved the Gift Policy and Privacy Policy. As always,
these are posted at:
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Policies
Treasurer Stuart West presented an update on the audit, informing the Board
that the audit is progressing much more quickly than last year, and that the
Board will receive the financial statements within a few weeks. Vice-Chair
Jan-Bart de Vreede made a presentation on Open Standards and a discussion
was held about file formats.
Discussions were also held about Advisory Board and Board development, and
the formation of sub-national chapters. Erik Moeller gave updates and
answered questions regarding Wikimedia's technology priorities, and the
online fundraiser. Minutes from the July meeting were approved.
The minutes of the October meeting will be approved and published following
the next board meeting, in January.
FUNDRAISING AND GRANTS
Extensive work was done by all departments on fine-tuning the various
components of the Annual Campaign in preparation for the launch the first
week of November:
* Further testing and development of the CiviCRM donor database, including
e-mail capabilities – for the first time, we've got automated e-mail thank
yous set up for all donors
* Development of campaign management tools for sitenotice deployment, such
as scheduling and weighting of different sitenotices
* Lining up external support by design and PR firms; producing the first
sitenotices; developing audio PSAs
* Identifying core messages that need to be translated and coordinating
volunteer translations
* Streamlining and documenting all fundraising related procedures, such as
donor thank-yous
* Developing a fundraising agreement between WMF and the chapters which want
to participate in the online fundraiser
* Investigating historical PayPal data that hasn't been imported into the
database
* Inviting past $1000+ donors to make leadership gifts prior to the
beginning of the 2008 fundraiser.
For the first time, the online fundraiser is led and coordinated by a
dedicated staff member, Rand Montoya.
We followed up on leads from the Funders' Briefings in September, including
people who could not attend the briefings.
There were 935 donations made in the month of October for a total of USD
65,503.32
OUTREACH
Frank Schulenburg worked with the Argentinian chapter to finalize plans for
the first Wikipedia Academy in Buenos Aires, to be held in early November.
Frank also spoke at the FSCONS conference in Gothenburg, Sweden and
supported Wikimedia Germany's Zedler Medal article writing award as well as
the Quadriga Award ceremony.
Frank also participated in a dedicated meeting/conference where the current
state of Wikimedia was discussed among Wikipedians and
academics:http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Siggen
Sue spoke at conferences in Florida and Germany, and met with the Knight
Foundation in Florida.
SOS Children UK, in coordination with the Wikimedia Foundation, released a
complete 2008/9 revision of the Wikipedia Selection for Schools, which is
perhaps the most successful "checked content" project derived from the
English Wikipedia.http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/2008-9_Selecti…
TECHNOLOGY
We welcomed two additions to the technical staff: Trevor Parscal, who will
work as a software developer, and Ariel Glenn, who will do development work
but also help with technical support for the San Francisco office.
Thanks to a volunteer, Robert Stojnic, and the deployment of new search
servers, we've enabled new search features, limited to the English Wikipedia
for now:http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2008-October/040022.html
We've also enabled the PediaPress technology on all Wikibooks wikis. It
allows wiki-to-PDF export, wiki-to-ODT export, and print-on-demand delivery
of collections of pages. Pending further review, usability and scalability
improvements, we hope to deploy it on Wikipedia and our other projects soon.
This work is funded in part by the Open Society Institute and the
Commonwealth of
Learning:http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/textbook-l/2008-October/00136…
Brion has led development of a code review tool, which was deployed and has
seen rapid adoption, localization and improvement. The tool allows MediaWiki
developers to add comments and tags to code changes through a web-based
interface: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki
Thanks to new dedicated hardware, the database dumps were restarted for all
languages. The English Wikipedia full-history dump continues to be
prohibitively slow; we're exploring solutions for this. Dump status is
visible here: http://download.wikipedia.org/ Concise summary:
http://www.infodisiac.com/cgi-bin/WikimediaDownload.pl
We continued consolidation of our infrastructure to Ubuntu, and this process
received some media attention, including a widely quoted Computer World
story:
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&art…
Erik and Michael Dale attended the Open Media Conference at Yale
University:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-November/047009.html
Rob has led the process of consolidating and tracking our domain name
registrations. We also continued our build-out of infrastructure in a new
data-center in Tampa, and we started to gradually phase in new Sun storage
equipment for media uploads.
RESEARCH
During the week of October 20, the first Wikimedia Foundation Reader &
Contributor Survey was launched in 20 languages. Its goal is to collect data
about the demographic make-up of the Wikipedia community and audience, its
motivations, interests, and beliefs. 4000 completed responses had already
been received by October 24.
Erik Zachte's statistics server has been delivered and deployed, and Erik
has started compiling some interesting reports for us. He has implemented
the first report on pageviews, based on Domas' pageview data:
http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesPageViewsMonthly.htm Related blog entry:
http://infodisiac.com/blog/2008/10/wikimedia-page-view-stats-i/
Erik has also taken a first stab at quantifying volunteer contributions made
during the fiscal year 2007-2008:
http://infodisiac.com/blog/2008/10/quantifying-volunteer-contribution/
This data is important to put organizational spending in relation to our
global ability to achieve impact together.
COMMUNICATIONS
The Wikimedia Foundation's first-ever Annual Report was finalized with the
audited financial information, published on the Wikimedia Foundation
website, and e-mailed to all past donors:
http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Annual_Report The report is a summary
of key activities of WMF in the fiscal year 2007-2008, an explanation of our
projects (including a two-page
"anatomy of a Wikipedia article"), an overview of our spending and the
2008-2009 budget, a brief look at the program activities of chapters around
the world, and a recognition of our supporters.
In the month of October, we participated in media interviews with Computer
World, a website of news and product coverage for information technology
managers and The Republican, a website providing coverage of the Western
Maryland town of Oakland, as well as of Garrett County.
GRANTS AND PARTNERSHIPS
Work continues on several grant proposals, including a major grant proposal
related to usability improvements. Sara compiled a spreadsheet of our
foundation prospects and rated them according to various criteria. She has
also started to consolidate all reporting requirements attached to current
grants so we can keep full track of our obligations.
Sara attended the Craigslist Non-Profit Bootcamp in San Mateo, where she
networked with individuals from other like-minded organizations.
FINANCE AND ADMIN
The audited financial statements for the fiscal year 2007-2008 were
finalized and approved by the Board. A summary was included in the Annual
Report, and the full statements will be posted in November.
Work began on the 990 tax returns and continued on transitioning bank
accounts from Suntrust to Citibank.
On October 20, we welcomed Daniel Phelps as the new Office Manager.
LEGAL
Policies and agreements were reviewed and an audit resolution was drafted in
preparation for the Board meeting. Work was done to follow up on
state-by-state registrations.
Negotiations continued with the Free Software Foundation regarding the
wording of the GNU Free Documentation License 1.3.
BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT
Work continued on two major leads and many smaller ones. In addition, some
older relationships were investigated or tied off. Some commercial trademark
uses were also investigated.
Kul has started building a sponsorship platform for events such as Wikimania
and Wikipedia Academies.
IN COMING WEEKS
Sue attending Free Software, Free Society conference in India (Dec. 8 – 15)
Board Meeting, January 8 – 10, 2009
Sue attending World Affairs Conference in Davos (Jan. 28 – Feb. 1)
I can not help reflect further on the whole Virgin Killer story.
Whilst I am very happy of the final outcome, and thank David Gerard and
WMF for having handled that very well, I feel also a big disatisfied by
the way we acknowledged what happen and discuss future steps.
We all perfectly know that if this particular image was borderline,
there are images or texts that are illegal in certain countries. I am
not even speaking of China here, but good old westernish countries.
In some countries, it may be sexually-oriented picts. In others, it may
be violence. In others yet, some texts we host are forbidden. I am not
going to cite any examples publicly ;-)
Until now, we have blinded ourselves in claiming that
* we do not really need to respect local countries law. We respect by
default the law of the country where projects are hosted (USA)
* if a country is not happy with some of the content, they can bring the
affair in front of a local tribunal. Then it will have to go in front of
an international tribunal. This will last 5 years at least. Good for us.
* if a legal decision forbid us to show a certain article or a certain
image, we'll implement a system to block showing the images or text in a
certain country.
And that was it !
Now, the fact is that we see that other mecanisms can work much better
than the legal route. It is sufficient that a Foundation, privately
funded by ISP, establish a black list, for the image/text to be not
accessible. And on top of that, in a few hours, for most of the citizens
of this country to be blocked from editing.
Now, seriously, what is more important right now ?
That citizens can not read one article ?
Or that all the citizens of a country can not edit all articles any more ?
I would argue that the content of Wikipedia can be copied and
distributed by anyone, so preventing reading our site is not such a bid
deal.
However, editing can only be done on our site, so the impact of blocking
in editing is quite dramatic.
My point is not to bend on local laws at all.
But I'd like to see people change their minds about the traditional
route we used to think we could be blocked in "democratic" countries
(legal route, with local then international tribunal).
And I'd like to see people think about the "worst cases", and then work
on how to decrease the impact (or prevent entirely) these worst cases.
Scenario planning in short.
If tomorrow, a really illegal-in-UK image is reported to the IWF, they
will block it for real. And they will block again editing. Is that a
concern ? Can it happen again ? What's the risk of it happening again ?
If it does, what do we do ? Which discussions should we start to avoid
the entire edit-blocking again ?
And... beyond UK, what do we know about the censorship-systems the
countries are setting into place ? I understood that Australia was
setting up the same system than UK, but that France was rather thinking
of other system. Should not we get to know and understand better what
governments are planning ? Should we try to lobby them to adopt certains
choices or not ? Should we help them adopt wise practices ?
Or should we just wait to see what's next ?
Ant