Lars Aronsson wrote:
>
>
> Even though I think Wikicat is one of most promising
> project
> proposals in the last few years, I fear it will have
> a hard time
> to explain, over and over again, the basics of
> bibliography to all
> newcomers who think they are experts. How can this
> project sort
> out the beginners and give them easy but meaningful
> tasks where
> they can be productive, without their ignorance
> causing damage?
One of the soft deliverables of the project proposal
is documentation and hopefully a training regime to
orient new users. The hope is that appropriate groups
like Wikiproject Librarians could take up the
responsibility once Wikicat became world-editable.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikicat#Stage_1.0
>
> Could we perhaps have a separate mailing list
> (wikicat-l) for
> discussions about Wikicat, even before the project
> is formally
> established? That would be an opportunity to
> establish some level
> of common knowledge and "get to know" each other.
>
It would be very useful, I think, to invite the
members of Wikiproject Librarians to this discussion
from the outset. If anyone knows of similar groups on
the non-English Wikipedias please invite them as well.
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Erik-
I'll discuss technical integration details with you
and Gerard offline. However, in a more general vein,
I'm not sure the lexical construct WiktionaryZ wishes
to impose on every sort of Wikidata entity makes
sense. For example, multi-lingualism is certainly
important in a lexicographic context, but it does not
apply to a catalog. A catalog has language-specific
data, for sure, but this is not multi-lingual data-
the language(s) in which a book's title is
historically expressed by the author or publisher is
important, and you cannot just do your own translation
into an arbitrary language and say that is also the
book's title. Similarly, films are given multiple
titles by their distributors for different markets yet
often these are very different from what a direct
translation would look like. Here is more detail on
these issues:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Multilingual_Wikidata
This also does not touch the performance/scalability
issues of storing all text data, all numerica data,
etc. in one table.
Regarding different referencing styles, I'm open to
anything though I think you'll find that in practice
standard numbers like ISBN are less cumbersome to use
than titles. For example, <<ref:The Davinci Code>>-
does this mean the book, the movie, the audio book, or
"The Davinci Code: Fact or Fiction?" ?
Also, citation is not just fetching bibliographic data
for the purposes of displaying it in an info box like
other information. It is fundamentally about
associating an assertion with evidence or support, and
so must capture the cited "text" as well as the
paraphrase text. Here is a mock-up of these idea in
the context of an enhanced article validation feature:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikicite_spider_review_mockup.jpg
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Well,
I finally got around to it. I have completed and replicated Wikipedi,
got around all of Erik's issues with 1.6.8,
and I am offering turn key systems with automated site mirroring
software, image sync tools, and machine
translators for Wikipedia. The knowledge is free, the software is free,
however, hardware
costs money ....
Anyone needing 7 x 24 support and systems to host Wikipedia and provide
Star Trek universal translator support
is welcome as a customer to support Wikipedia collaboration.
Back to work on Cherokee thesaraus and Otali dialect issues. I am
selling the hardware at near cost + my time
and expense to support folks who need to mirror Wikipedia in a format
that works. Let me know if there are
issues with Wikimedia trademarks. I am not using them other than to say
I am installing the Wikipedia
encyclopedia on the systems.
All my Wikilove,
Jeff
GerardM wrote:
> The project that you propose has a very large
overlap with the WikiAuthors
> project.
Yes, a little bit of déjà vu here ;) :
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:WikiAuthors#Wikicat
>
> This project is as it is described on Meta about
among other things
> the disambiguation of Pubmet articles. This project
is extremely likely to
> be realised. The functionality that you describe can
and will by and large
> be modelled using Wikidata technology.
>
> As this project does use the Wikidata technology, it
would make very much
> sense to collaborate and share our efforts and make
one big and beautiful
> project.
Absolutely. The issue Wikiauthors is trying to
address ([[w:authority control]]) ideally should not
be occurring in a professionally-run catalog, and
there may still be the possibility that beneath the
Pubmed web interface enough information is being
recorded in the bibliographic records to uniquely
distinguish authors. But in any case the ability to
correct or enhance bibliographic data is something
Wikicat will definitely need to support, and this
hopefully will meet all the needs of Wikiauthors.
> Please let us discuss how we can / will collaborate.
Sure. Let's me, you, and Erik take our discussion off
the foundation list so as not to bother everyone with
unnecessary technical details.
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>
> I'm normally against the creation of new projects,
> but this sounds
> like a pretty good idea. Presumably, it'll be a
> little like Commons
> but instead of images, would handle citations. I
> suppose other
> Wikimedia projects will make use of this, do you
> hope to allow
> non-WikiMedia projects to use it?
Strictly speaking, citation is its own project (coming
very shortly, I hope):
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikicite
Wikicat will simply act as the data back-end to
support citation, though both projects are very
interrelated. For example, citing a work for the
first time will import it into Wikicat, while editing
a work within Wikicat will affect the data displayed
by all Wikipedia articles citing it.
The software for this is being written as an extension
so it should be useable by any Mediawiki installation.
>
> The project will aim to catalogue books, news,
> journals, what else? Film?
Yes, everything that is currently catalogable will be
supported: books, journals, film, artwork and
artifacts, maps, electronic resources, recorded sound,
natural specimens and realia, etc. It will be like an
IMDB for everything. What will separate it from
existing catalogs, hopefully, is its detail- entries
for a particular journal will describe every article
contained within its issues, an entry for a movie will
show every song or piece of music used on its
soundtrack, etc. Wikicat will also use the model
proposed in Functional Requirements for Bibliographic
Records (FRBR) so that the same or related content can
be easily found, no matter what form its published in:
http://www.frbr.org/eg/hp-goblet-1.html
>
> How will different referencing styles be handled?
This is still an open issue, but the idea is to use a
single, very compact style so that every citation can
be captured as structured data and used to populate a
"text relationship" database (the focus of a 3rd
project: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiTextrose).
This will contain a database of all citations, from
Wikipedia articles to published works, and from those
published works to other published works, including
perhaps someday back to Wikpedia articles :) This
will allow lots of useful functionality, one example
of which is that users will be able to follow a
citation from a Wikipedia article to a work, see all
the works which it cites, and then perhaps improve the
article by using more specialized material than the
work which the article originally cited.
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I met with the tribal council of the Ute Nation last Tuesday and they
have agreed to provide the materials to move the project forward
with machine translations into Uto-Aztecan. They have requested that
the translated materials remain confidential and accessible only
to the Ute Tribe for now. I am drafting an agreement relative to the
project to address their concerns. I am requiring that they honor
the GFDL terms and any other copyright requirements subject to materials
which are translated. Any other comments would be appreciated
form the community for inclusion in the final agreements before I
forward them for signature.
Jeff
Hello,
I originally posted this to the commons-l list (
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2006-June/000277.html )
to little response. So let's see if I can do any better with a wider
audience.
Here are some recent issues that I would like resolved:
* To what extent are we bound by local laws and to what extent are we
bound by Florida's laws (as the home of our servers). Country
copyrights vary considerably with regards to duration of copyright,
"freedom of panorama" (Panoramafreiheit) /whether public objects such
as statues and even buildings can be freely photographed and there is
a lot of confusion about this. Should we respect local law always or
interpret in terms of US law?
(Big discussion about a photo of the interior of a
German railway station:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Archives11#Imag…
)
* There was recently a discussion about the "Against DRM" license (
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:ADRM &
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:Licensing/ADRM ).
* Logos. This has still not been sufficiently resolved, in that there
is not a clear enough solution that everyone is aware of. Do we
consider copyright independently of trademark status? Is that even
possible? (
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Archives11#Imag…
)
* "Agencia Brasil" license (
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Ag%C3%AAncia_Brasil ) also
has been debated several times. Related to the wider issue of, "if a
website says "these images can be used freely, can we interpret that
as allowing commercial use and derivative works, and thus
Commons-compliant? Or do we need to check each time whether they
intend to allow these specific rights?"
* Photographs of commercial products such as: Pokemon/Star
Wars/Simpsons toys, box of Pringles, also people in dress-up outfits
of characters such as Lara Croft/Chewbacca. Eloquence has raised this
before ( http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Archives10#Vari…
) but I doubt even he would think this has been satisfactorily
resolved.
* US presidential portraits (
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:Licensing#Portraits_with_unc…
kind of got split up and was carried over from a debate on en.wp
anyway).
* Photographs of art - if the artwork itself is old enough to be PD,
is it true that any photograph of the art itself is also PD, but any
photograph of the art in its frame or on a wall is not? (Because it
is 3-D, not 2-D anymore)
* Personality rights. What permission is required of people
photographed, if any? (eg "Can I take your picture"/"Can I publish
your picture on a public database that allows commercial use?") Is
this a copyright concern or a "other law" concern that we don't need
to worry about? What if the people aren't recognisable (and how can
you decide that anyway?)? (
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Deletion_requests#Image:Kind_in_…
is a current one, also some of the "visible thong" pictures on
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/G-string have been nominated before)
* Stock xchange images (current:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/COM:SXC villy also wrote
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Aurevilly/sxc.hu_%282%29 but it
seems to have stalled). What should be done with the existing images
(which are intentionally not categorised in any way as such, so they
might be hard to find), what do we have to do (if anything) in order
to use current images?
* Flickr allows users to change the licenses on their images with no
external notice. So CC-BY or CC-BY-SA images uploaded to Commons might
later appear to be CC-BY-NC-ND or even "all rights reserved". This is
an increasing problem. Obviously Flickr needs a "history" tab, but
until then...? (current discussion at
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump#Flickr_allows_licens…
)
* Flag copyright - originality - again which laws to apply? (eg.
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2006-June/000385.html ,
is it true?)
I really feel distaste at the idea that the Foundation would avoid
involving itself in such questions in order to avoid legal
culpability.
Help, please?
Brianna
commons, meta, en.wp:User:pfctdayelise
On behalf of the Communications committee, I wanted to keep everyone
updated on the work being done to plan the upcoming Board of Trustees
election. The Board has informed us that Essjay and Datrio have been
appointed as inspectors of the election; Aphaia will assist them as an
alternate election official. The election is planned to start September
1, 2006 and run for two weeks.
The election officials will fill in the details as they become
available. I appreciate their willingness to help with this process.
They should have more information for us in the near future, and will
let candidates know how to go about declaring themselves.
--Michael Snow
Hello,
Let me forward this email to Foundation-l for other
people feedback, and let's keep in touch with this in
any case :-)
Florence Devouard
--- Marlies Klooster <marliesklooster(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> This is the e-mail I meant.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Marlies
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: Jimmy Wales <jwales(a)wikia.com>
> > Date: 17 July 2006 2:21:43 PM
> > To: Marlies Klooster <marliesklooster(a)gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: Wikipedia and books for African
> children
> >
> > Thank you! :) You might consider sending this
> email as well to
> > foundation-l(a)wikimedia.org so that more people in
> our community will
> > see
> > it and learn about this wonderful organization.
> >
> >
> > Marlies Klooster wrote:
> >> Dear Mr Walsh,
> >>
> >> I am impressed by the work and initiatives of
> Wikimedia, especially
> >> Wikipedia. You developed something that is truly
> unique for our times
> >> and I want you to compliment for that. Recently I
> read an interview
> >> with
> >> you in the Dutch newspaper NRC (www.nrc.nl) in
> which you made the
> >> intriguing remark that if Wikipedia were ever to
> make money from
> >> advertisements, you would want this money to go
> to books for children
> >> in
> >> Africa.
> >>
> >> As a volunteer and fundraiser for Biblionef I
> feel I should tell you
> >> about this great book organization I know:
> Biblionef. This NGO donates
> >> new storybooks--free of charge--to needy
> childrens organisations
> >> throughout South Africa. (There are more
> Biblionefs in other
> >> countries,
> >> see http://www.biblionef.org/). Since 1999
> Biblionef South Africa only
> >> has donated over 250.000 books. Their target
> group comprises children
> >> living in disadvantaged communities who have no
> access to books.
> >> Biblionef is unique in South Africa in the sense
> that the books they
> >> donate are in each childs own language, which
> means they cover all of
> >> South Africas eleven languages.
> >>
> >> In South Africa over 60% of schools have no
> library and at least half
> >> of
> >> them is located more than 40 miles away from a
> public library. The
> >> main
> >> aim of Biblionefs work is to establish a culture
> of reading. This is
> >> only possible when the books have an impact on
> children. That is why
> >> Biblionef carefully collects the books that will
> be donated. In doing
> >> so
> >> Biblionef closely cooperates with local
> publishers in various ways.
> >> Publishers donate newly published storybooks in
> the African languages
> >> to
> >> Biblionef. For other projects Biblionef initiates
> reprints or
> >> publications. Whenever possible Biblionef links
> its donation to
> >> existing
> >> reading initiatives or plans.
> >>
> >> I personally worked with Biblionef for over a
> year, during which we
> >> created the website (www.biblionefsa.org.za) and
> during which I had
> >> the
> >> chance to visit a great number of schools and
> libraries who had (or
> >> asked for) Biblionef books. Some were really
> small, some had hardly
> >> any
> >> books but they were always FULL with children.
> You have to visit an
> >> African library to understand its importance in a
> world deprived of
> >> information and quiet workspace. A number of
> those libraries is in the
> >> process of getting computers and internet
> connection, too. But doesn't
> >> all learning and reading start with colourful
> stories conveyed in
> >> quality books? If you ever have the opportunity
> to donate toward books
> >> for children in Africa, I strongly hope you will
> think of Biblionef.
> >>
> >> Thank you so much for your time and
> consideration.
> >>
> >> Kind regards,
> >>
> >> Marlies Klooster
> >> for: Biblionef South Africa
> >> http://www.biblionefsa.org.za
> >>
> >> Biblionef is a member of the American Fund for
> Charities, a 501(c)(3)
> >> public charity that allows American individuals
> and companies to make
> >> tax-deductible donations to Biblionef SA through
> their fund.
> >>
> >> "Motho ke motho ka batho babang" (A person is a
> person because of
> >> others)
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
>
#######################################################################
> > # Office: 1-727-231-0101 | Free Culture
> and Free Knowledge #
> > # http://www.wikipedia.org | Building a
> free world #
> >
>
#######################################################################
> > begin:vcard
> fn:Jimmy Wales
> n:Wales;Jimmy
> org:Wikia, Inc.
> email;internet:jwales@wikia.com
> title:Chairman
> tel;work:+1-727-231-0101
> x-mozilla-html:FALSE
> url:http://www.wikia.com/
> version:2.1
> end:vcard
>
>
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Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> As much of a problem as the above may be for us, it's not the worst of
> it: Simmlar cases to Bridgeman v. Corel have come up in the UK and
> the decision has been exactly the opposite.
They have? If so, could you point one out? So far, I know that people
have pointed to a statutory definition of photographs as artistic works
in their own right under UK law. But beyond that argument, which doesn't
seem to clearly settle the matter, I'm not aware of anything that
addresses the precise issue in Bridgeman v. Corel under UK law. Indeed,
the famous Bridgeman opinion was only issued after the court originally
decided the case based on its understanding of UK law (with the same
result), and was persuaded to reconsider and concluded that US law
applied, thus more clearly stating how this principle operates for US
law. Now a US court is certainly not the final word on UK law, but I'd
like to know more if there really is a conflicting decision out there.
--Michael Snow
