Monuments lost since September 2011 - WikiLovesMonuments - lists.wikimedia.org

List overview All Threads
Download

Monuments lost since September 2011

WLM Android App

A very easy way to release...

Platonides

26 Aug 2012 26 Aug '12

9:06 p.m.

I was wondering if somebody had (or was willing to prepare) a list of monuments around the world that could have been photographed during WLM 2011 timeline but no longer exist. I think it would make for a great piece of news for release during the contest, in the lines of [[en:Wikipedia:There is a deadline]] essay, to motivate participation.

Reply

Show replies by date

Tomasz W. Kozłowski

26 Aug 26 Aug

9:40 p.m.

Hi Platonides, this is a great idea, but requires much work; we'd probably need to make a crowd-sourcing effort to get at least a small list of such objects. As far as I remember, Emijrp wrote a great essay on the subject last year, so we'll only need to add the list. I see that the Global Heritage Fund has identified such a list for Syria (see <http://ghn.globalheritagefund.com/uploads/documents/document_2107.pdf>), so maybe going in the direction of countries currently engaged in a military conflict (Wikipedia provides us with a list at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_military_conflicts>) might be a choice. On the other hand, a Google search for "damaged cultural heritage" (in Polish) directed me to an article on the 2012 Northern Italy earthquakes (at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Northern_Italy_earthquakes>), so maybe this direction good help us list some other damaged monuments, too. Just my three grosze. Thanks, Tomasz

Reply

Osmar Valdebenito

9:55 p.m.

In our case, we had the earthquake of 2010. The Council of Monuments prepared an extensive review of the effects of the catastrophe on monuments: 78,5% on Central Chile had damages (0,8% totally destroyed and 30,9% with major damages).[2] One year after, there has been a lot of improvement but still some monuments are being repaired.[3] One of the best examples is the Basilica del Salvador, in downtown Santiago, that hasn't been repaired after the damages of the earthquakes of 1985 and 2010.[4] [1] http://www.monumentos.cl/OpenDocs/asp/pagDefault.asp?boton=Doc51&argIns… [2] http://www.monumentos.cl/OpenDocs/asp/pagDefault.asp?boton=Doc51&argIns… [3] http://www.monumentos.cl/OpenDocs/asp/pagDefault.asp?boton=Doc51&argIns… [4] http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bas%C3%ADlica_del_Salvador 2012/8/26 Tomasz W. Kozłowski <odder.wiki(a)gmail.com>

Hi Platonides, this is a great idea, but requires much work; we'd probably need to make a crowd-sourcing effort to get at least a small list of such objects. As far as I remember, Emijrp wrote a great essay on the subject last year, so we'll only need to add the list. I see that the Global Heritage Fund has identified such a list for Syria (see < http://ghn.globalheritagefund.com/uploads/documents/document_2107.pdf>)t;), so maybe going in the direction of countries currently engaged in a military conflict (Wikipedia provides us with a list at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_military_conflicts>) might be a choice. On the other hand, a Google search for "damaged cultural heritage" (in Polish) directed me to an article on the 2012 Northern Italy earthquakes (at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Northern_Italy_earthquakes>), so maybe this direction good help us list some other damaged monuments, too. Just my three grosze. Thanks, Tomasz _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

Reply

emijrp

10:04 p.m.

I don't think there was many utterly destroyed heritage last year, but partially damaged for sure. Examples: shelled mosquees minarets in Syrian civil war, buildings and documents burned in Egypt revolution, some damages in buildings and churches in the Italian earthquake, attacks in Timbuktu WHS, some damages and looting in Lybia uprising and war, and more. If Israel attacks Iran and war breaks out, probably there will be damages, as were in Iraq, Lybia, Egypt and Syria. I started this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heritage_damaged_during_Syrian_civil_w… And Oscar Valdebenito references are nice for another list focused in Chilean earthquake. 2012/8/26 Platonides <platonides(a)gmail.com>

I was wondering if somebody had (or was willing to prepare) a list of monuments around the world that could have been photographed during WLM 2011 timeline but no longer exist. I think it would make for a great piece of news for release during the contest, in the lines of [[en:Wikipedia:There is a deadline]] essay, to motivate participation.

-- Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada. E-mail: emijrp AT gmail DOT com Pre-doctoral student at the University of Cádiz (Spain) Projects: AVBOT <http://code.google.com/p/avbot/> | StatMediaWiki<http://statmediawiki.forja.rediris.es> | WikiEvidens <http://code.google.com/p/wikievidens/> | WikiPapers<http://wikipapers.referata.com> | WikiTeam <http://code.google.com/p/wikiteam/> Personal website: https://sites.google.com/site/emijrp/

Reply

Bas vb

10:36 p.m.

Hello, In the Netherlands there luckily are no destructions/disasters which destroyed more then one (or a few) monuments. But also without these many monuments get destroyed. Those are maybe not the most special ones. But fires, owners who do not care. I think althought each of these cases are small. Together they make up a lot of the buildings destroyed. The best example for that is probably one of the winning pictures in Russia last year. The burning church. That was a monument which was captured in its final moments. [1] In a dutch monuments magazine there was an article on fire in monuments. Last year I happened to have pictured almost all buildings in a dutch city called Kampen. In January this year one of those burned down. [2] Besides that there are the buildings which get destroyed by the time (no maintenance) Those are maybe not almost the most special cases. But I expect these make up a lot of the damage. This 2 categories also are around everywhere, in each country there are fires. I think making lists of all buildings which get destroyed this way is a little bit to big for a side project. Maybe some heritage organisations allready made these lists. But making a list of special cases (very special to the earth/special because we have a great capture of these) is a good idea. Another thing is that for WLM people can also upload pictures. So it might not yet be to late. Maybe a top 10 or 100 (aim high?) of buildings which sadly got destroyed but do not yet have a picture. A sort of "most wanted pictures (from lost buildings)" would be cool. Mvg, Bas [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%B0%D1%80_%D0%A… this one really is a spectacular photo and usefull for the article [2] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Oudestraat_10_-_Kampen.jpg there are 10.000 buildings like these, so not one of the most special cases. But there are also lots of these cases[3] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Grebbedijk_6a,_Wageningen.jpg No maintenance, also lots of cases. Not the most special building but today the hole in the roof is even bigger. From: emijrp(a)gmail.com Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:04:12 +0200 To: platonides(a)gmail.com CC: wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] Monuments lost since September 2011 I don't think there was many utterly destroyed heritage last year, but partially damaged for sure. Examples: shelled mosquees minarets in Syrian civil war, buildings and documents burned in Egypt revolution, some damages in buildings and churches in the Italian earthquake, attacks in Timbuktu WHS, some damages and looting in Lybia uprising and war, and more. If Israel attacks Iran and war breaks out, probably there will be damages, as were in Iraq, Lybia, Egypt and Syria. I started this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heritage_damaged_during_Syrian_civil_w… And Oscar Valdebenito references are nice for another list focused in Chilean earthquake. 2012/8/26 Platonides <platonides(a)gmail.com> I was wondering if somebody had (or was willing to prepare) a list of monuments around the world that could have been photographed during WLM 2011 timeline but no longer exist. I think it would make for a great piece of news for release during the contest, in the lines of [[en:Wikipedia:There is a deadline]] essay, to motivate participation. -- Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada. E-mail: emijrp AT gmail DOT com Pre-doctoral student at the University of Cádiz (Spain)Projects: AVBOT | StatMediaWiki | WikiEvidens | WikiPapers | WikiTeam Personal website: https://sites.google.com/site/emijrp/ _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

Reply

Lodewijk

11:03 p.m.

Just as a matter of PR... Personally I don't like the 'fear' message very much: we have to photograph because the building might burn down. Basically because it is a very negative and pessimist message which doesn't carry well if you realize that a photo is an extremely poor replacement for a building and in most houses there are other things to worry about if it burns down (personal disasters). I personally much rather focus on the positive message: sharing the heritage with the rest of the world, discovering the heritage you barely knew about in your own neighborhood and illustrating the worlds largest single body of knowledge through the world largest photo competition. But aside from that it is possible to bring it as one of many stories on our blog. Just don't let it become the main point in our PR story to the press. I know it is tempting because it seems an easy sell - but I think the positive story scales better to our other projects and the general goals we try to accomplish. Best, Lodewijk 2012/8/27 Bas vb <basvb_wikipedia(a)live.nl>

Hello, In the Netherlands there luckily are no destructions/disasters which destroyed more then one (or a few) monuments. But also without these many monuments get destroyed. Those are maybe not the most special ones. But fires, owners who do not care. I think althought each of these cases are small. Together they make up a lot of the buildings destroyed. The best example for that is probably one of the winning pictures in Russia last year. The burning church. That was a monument which was captured in its final moments. [1] In a dutch monuments magazine there was an article on fire in monuments. Last year I happened to have pictured almost all buildings in a dutch city called Kampen. In January this year one of those burned down. [2] Besides that there are the buildings which get destroyed by the time (no maintenance) Those are maybe not almost the most special cases. But I expect these make up a lot of the damage. This 2 categories also are around everywhere, in each country there are fires. I think making lists of all buildings which get destroyed this way is a little bit to big for a side project. Maybe some heritage organisations allready made these lists. But making a list of special cases (very special to the earth/special because we have a great capture of these) is a good idea. Another thing is that for WLM people can also upload pictures. So it might not yet be to late. Maybe a top 10 or 100 (aim high?) of buildings which sadly got destroyed but do not yet have a picture. A sort of "most wanted pictures (from lost buildings)" would be cool. Mvg, Bas [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%B0%D1%80_%D0%A… this one really is a spectacular photo and usefull for the article [2] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Oudestraat_10_-_Kampen.jpg there are 10.000 buildings like these, so not one of the most special cases. But there are also lots of these cases [3] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Grebbedijk_6a,_Wageningen.jpg No maintenance, also lots of cases. Not the most special building but today the hole in the roof is even bigger. ------------------------------ From: emijrp(a)gmail.com Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:04:12 +0200 To: platonides(a)gmail.com CC: wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] Monuments lost since September 2011 I don't think there was many utterly destroyed heritage last year, but partially damaged for sure. Examples: shelled mosquees minarets in Syrian civil war, buildings and documents burned in Egypt revolution, some damages in buildings and churches in the Italian earthquake, attacks in Timbuktu WHS, some damages and looting in Lybia uprising and war, and more. If Israel attacks Iran and war breaks out, probably there will be damages, as were in Iraq, Lybia, Egypt and Syria. I started this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heritage_damaged_during_Syrian_civil_w… And Oscar Valdebenito references are nice for another list focused in Chilean earthquake. 2012/8/26 Platonides <platonides(a)gmail.com> I was wondering if somebody had (or was willing to prepare) a list of monuments around the world that could have been photographed during WLM 2011 timeline but no longer exist. I think it would make for a great piece of news for release during the contest, in the lines of [[en:Wikipedia:There is a deadline]] essay, to motivate participation. -- Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada. E-mail: emijrp AT gmail DOT com Pre-doctoral student at the University of Cádiz (Spain) Projects: AVBOT <http://code.google.com/p/avbot/> | StatMediaWiki<http://statmediawiki.forja.rediris.es> | WikiEvidens <http://code.google.com/p/wikievidens/> | WikiPapers<http://wikipapers.referata.com> | WikiTeam <http://code.google.com/p/wikiteam/> Personal website: https://sites.google.com/site/emijrp/ _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

Reply

Yaroslav M. Blanter

27 Aug 27 Aug

5:42 a.m.

On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:36:30 +0200, Bas vb wrote:

Hello, The best example for that is probably one of the winning pictures in Russia last year. The burning church. That was a monument which was captured in its final moments. [1]

The Russian church has been restored long ago. The picture is not from 2011, it was taken much earlier. Indeed in Russia many monuments disappear every year (burn or get demolished without permission / solicited into removal from the monument list), but Saint Petersburg is relatively good in this respect as a World Heritage site, and I do not think any of the pictures from the last year contest represent lost monuments. Cheers Yaroslav

Reply

WereSpielChequers

6:43 a.m.

If we want to build up our image library of lost monuments then WLM is perhaps not the best place to start. Rather than a photo hunt for what is available today we need a hunt through attics for things available from the past. Much was destroyed in the war, and quite a bit since. Even where buildings survived and were restored often the stained glass windows were lost. But there are copyright issues when the photographers died in recent decades. I would like to load some of my grandfather's photographs, and I think that my Mother would have sole inheritance rights to his copyrights, but with one of her uncles it gets more complex. WSC On 26 August 2012 22:06, Platonides <platonides(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I was wondering if somebody had (or was willing to prepare) a list of monuments around the world that could have been photographed during WLM 2011 timeline but no longer exist. I think it would make for a great piece of news for release during the contest, in the lines of [[en:Wikipedia:There is a deadline]] essay, to motivate participation. _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

Reply

Andrea Zanni

8:40 a.m.

I think it is very interesting, for example in Italy we had an earthquake and nearly 40-50 churches were severely damaged or destroyed (plus many houses and other monuments, of course). I actually have many of pictures of those damaged churches: still, we don't have the authorization for publishing them (you still remember our crappy law?) So I don't know what I should do with them... Aubrey 2012/8/27 WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers(a)gmail.com>

If we want to build up our image library of lost monuments then WLM is perhaps not the best place to start. Rather than a photo hunt for what is available today we need a hunt through attics for things available from the past. Much was destroyed in the war, and quite a bit since. Even where buildings survived and were restored often the stained glass windows were lost. But there are copyright issues when the photographers died in recent decades. I would like to load some of my grandfather's photographs, and I think that my Mother would have sole inheritance rights to his copyrights, but with one of her uncles it gets more complex. WSC On 26 August 2012 22:06, Platonides <platonides(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I was wondering if somebody had (or was willing to prepare) a list of monuments around the world that could have been photographed during WLM 2011 timeline but no longer exist. I think it would make for a great piece of news for release during the contest, in the lines of [[en:Wikipedia:There is a deadline]] essay, to motivate participation. _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

_______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

Reply

WereSpielChequers

9:06 a.m.

For some images we could build a repository that releases images to commons on specific dates. I have hundreds of images that I can only release now on a limited license, but in a few decades or maybe a century could be broadened to PD. But I think for Italy we need to see the law changed. WSC On 27 August 2012 09:40, Andrea Zanni <zanni.andrea84(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I think it is very interesting, for example in Italy we had an earthquake and nearly 40-50 churches were severely damaged or destroyed (plus many houses and other monuments, of course). I actually have many of pictures of those damaged churches: still, we don't have the authorization for publishing them (you still remember our crappy law?) So I don't know what I should do with them... Aubrey 2012/8/27 WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers(a)gmail.com>

If we want to build up our image library of lost monuments then WLM is perhaps not the best place to start. Rather than a photo hunt for what is available today we need a hunt through attics for things available from the past. Much was destroyed in the war, and quite a bit since. Even where buildings survived and were restored often the stained glass windows were lost. But there are copyright issues when the photographers died in recent decades. I would like to load some of my grandfather's photographs, and I think that my Mother would have sole inheritance rights to his copyrights, but with one of her uncles it gets more complex. WSC On 26 August 2012 22:06, Platonides <platonides(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I was wondering if somebody had (or was willing to prepare) a list of monuments around the world that could have been photographed during WLM 2011 timeline but no longer exist. I think it would make for a great piece of news for release during the contest, in the lines of [[en:Wikipedia:There is a deadline]] essay, to motivate participation. _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

_______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

_______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

Reply

emijrp

10:55 a.m.

Yes. We need a Wikimedia Commons feature to make time capsules that will open when images inside are public domain, 50 years, 100 years in the future. Meanwhile, only admins can explore them. 2012/8/27 WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers(a)gmail.com>

For some images we could build a repository that releases images to commons on specific dates. I have hundreds of images that I can only release now on a limited license, but in a few decades or maybe a century could be broadened to PD. But I think for Italy we need to see the law changed. WSC On 27 August 2012 09:40, Andrea Zanni <zanni.andrea84(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I think it is very interesting, for example in Italy we had an earthquake and nearly 40-50 churches were severely damaged or destroyed (plus many houses and other monuments, of course). I actually have many of pictures of those damaged churches: still, we don't have the authorization for publishing them (you still remember our crappy law?) So I don't know what I should do with them... Aubrey 2012/8/27 WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers(a)gmail.com>

If we want to build up our image library of lost monuments then WLM is perhaps not the best place to start. Rather than a photo hunt for what is available today we need a hunt through attics for things available from the past. Much was destroyed in the war, and quite a bit since. Even where buildings survived and were restored often the stained glass windows were lost. But there are copyright issues when the photographers died in recent decades. I would like to load some of my grandfather's photographs, and I think that my Mother would have sole inheritance rights to his copyrights, but with one of her uncles it gets more complex. WSC On 26 August 2012 22:06, Platonides <platonides(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I was wondering if somebody had (or was willing to prepare) a list of monuments around the world that could have been photographed during WLM 2011 timeline but no longer exist. I think it would make for a great piece of news for release during the contest, in the lines of [[en:Wikipedia:There is a deadline]] essay, to motivate participation. _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

_______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

_______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

_______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

-- Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada. E-mail: emijrp AT gmail DOT com Pre-doctoral student at the University of Cádiz (Spain) Projects: AVBOT <http://code.google.com/p/avbot/> | StatMediaWiki<http://statmediawiki.forja.rediris.es> | WikiEvidens <http://code.google.com/p/wikievidens/> | WikiPapers<http://wikipapers.referata.com> | WikiTeam <http://code.google.com/p/wikiteam/> Personal website: https://sites.google.com/site/emijrp/

Reply

emijrp

10:58 a.m.

You can't publish them under CC-BY or under any terms? I'm interested in that pictures. Anyway, some people have uploaded similar pics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Northern_Italy_earthquakes#20_May_earthqu… hope they are not deleted. 2012/8/27 Andrea Zanni <zanni.andrea84(a)gmail.com>

I think it is very interesting, for example in Italy we had an earthquake and nearly 40-50 churches were severely damaged or destroyed (plus many houses and other monuments, of course). I actually have many of pictures of those damaged churches: still, we don't have the authorization for publishing them (you still remember our crappy law?) So I don't know what I should do with them... Aubrey 2012/8/27 WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers(a)gmail.com>

If we want to build up our image library of lost monuments then WLM is perhaps not the best place to start. Rather than a photo hunt for what is available today we need a hunt through attics for things available from the past. Much was destroyed in the war, and quite a bit since. Even where buildings survived and were restored often the stained glass windows were lost. But there are copyright issues when the photographers died in recent decades. I would like to load some of my grandfather's photographs, and I think that my Mother would have sole inheritance rights to his copyrights, but with one of her uncles it gets more complex. WSC On 26 August 2012 22:06, Platonides <platonides(a)gmail.com> wrote:

I was wondering if somebody had (or was willing to prepare) a list of monuments around the world that could have been photographed during WLM 2011 timeline but no longer exist. I think it would make for a great piece of news for release during the contest, in the lines of [[en:Wikipedia:There is a deadline]] essay, to motivate participation. _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

_______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

_______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org

-- Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada. E-mail: emijrp AT gmail DOT com Pre-doctoral student at the University of Cádiz (Spain) Projects: AVBOT <http://code.google.com/p/avbot/> | StatMediaWiki<http://statmediawiki.forja.rediris.es> | WikiEvidens <http://code.google.com/p/wikievidens/> | WikiPapers<http://wikipapers.referata.com> | WikiTeam <http://code.google.com/p/wikiteam/> Personal website: https://sites.google.com/site/emijrp/

Reply

4270

days inactive

4271

days old

wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org

Manage subscription

11 comments

9 participants

tags (0)

participants (9)

Andrea Zanni
Bas vb
emijrp
Lodewijk
Osmar Valdebenito
Platonides
Tomasz W. Kozłowski
WereSpielChequers
Yaroslav M. Blanter