Dear colleges,
Please could you help me to stop User Sreejithk2000 who deleting photos from competition without discussion and before we download them for jury. Here is his activity - http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/Sreejithk2000&...
-- Regards, Andrij Bondarenko
On 04/10/12 22:38, Андрій Бондаренко wrote:
Dear colleges,
Please could you help me to stop User Sreejithk2000 who deleting photos from competition without discussion and before we download them for jury. Here is his activity - http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/Sreejithk2000&...
-- Regards, Andrij Bondarenko
You mean the deletions like «No freedom of panorama in Ukraine. Architect Tadeusz Wróbel (pl:Tadeusz Stanisław Wróbel) died in 1974, co-author Leopold Karasiński (uk:Леопольд Карасінський) died in 1952» ?
Why is it wrong?
2012/10/4 Platonides platonides@gmail.com
On 04/10/12 22:38, Андрій Бондаренко wrote:
Dear colleges,
Please could you help me to stop User Sreejithk2000 who deleting photos from competition without discussion and before we download them for jury. Here is his activity -
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/Sreejithk2000&...
-- Regards, Andrij Bondarenko
You mean the deletions like «No freedom of panorama in Ukraine. Architect Tadeusz Wróbel (pl:Tadeusz Stanisław Wróbel) died in 1974, co-author Leopold Karasiński (uk:Леопольд Карасінський) died in 1952» ?
Why is it wrong?
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Because Sreejithk2000 did not explain his doing on uploader's page. On the other hand his activity distorts statistics of our participantshttp://toolserver.org/~platonides/wlm/users.php, which is significant for competition awards.
-- Regards, Andrij
On 04/10/12 22:56, Андрій Бондаренко wrote:
On the other hand his activity distorts statistics of our participants http://toolserver.org/~platonides/wlm/users.php, which is significant for competition awards.
-- Regards, Andrij
Well, if those files are copyvios, they shouldn't be countered...
But we have no evidence that this was copyvio. The decision is not transparent.
2012/10/5 Platonides platonides@gmail.com
On 04/10/12 22:56, Андрій Бондаренко wrote:
On the other hand his activity distorts statistics of our participants http://toolserver.org/~platonides/wlm/users.php, which is significant for competition awards.
-- Regards, Andrij
Well, if those files are copyvios, they shouldn't be countered...
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-- Regards, Andrij
I agree. FOP issues are never obvious copyright violations and should never be speedy deleted.
Maarten
Op 4 okt 2012 om 23:54 heeft Андрій Бондаренко bondareandre@gmail.com het volgende geschreven:\
But we have no evidence that this was copyvio. The decision is not transparent.
2012/10/5 Platonides platonides@gmail.com On 04/10/12 22:56, Андрій Бондаренко wrote:
On the other hand his activity distorts statistics of our
participants
significant
for competition awards.
-- Regards, Andrij
Well, if those files are copyvios, they shouldn't be countered...
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
-- Regards, Andrij _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
2012/10/5 Maarten Dammers maarten@mdammers.nl:
I agree. FOP issues are never obvious copyright violations and should never be speedy deleted.
Actually there is discussion about it on Commons:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_uploaded_b...
It is interesting that the pictures were nominated for speedy deletion by uploader himself, and the admin has just "executed" his will.
Seems a fair amount of these removals are Copyvios.
~Jason
On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 4:38 PM, Андрій Бондаренко < a1@wikimediaukraine.org.ua> wrote:
Dear colleges,
Please could you help me to stop User Sreejithk2000 who deleting photos from competition without discussion and before we download them for jury. Here is his activity - http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/Sreejithk2000&...
-- Regards, Andrij Bondarenko
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
I need to look at these photos to be sure it is true.
2012/10/4 Jason Spriggs jason@jasonspriggs.com
Seems a fair amount of these removals are Copyvios.
~Jason
On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 4:38 PM, Андрій Бондаренко < a1@wikimediaukraine.org.ua> wrote:
Dear colleges,
Please could you help me to stop User Sreejithk2000 who deleting photos from competition without discussion and before we download them for jury. Here is his activity - http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/Sreejithk2000&...
-- Regards, Andrij Bondarenko
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
--
*Thank you for contacting Jason Spriggs.*
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
2012/10/4 Андрій Бондаренко bondareandre@gmail.com:
I need to look at these photos to be sure it is true.
Well - regarding the pictures which were assumed to be copyvio due to no freedom of panorama in Ukraine and showing buildings made by Polish architects before II World War - the case is not that obvious and IMHO should be carefully discussed - maybe even with help of professional lawyer.
I don't know anythingh about current Ukrainian law - but if we assume that
a) Lviv was Polish before II world war b) the architect was Polish citizen
The applicable copyrigh work for plans of builiding is rather Polish than Ukrainian.
Acutally the bulidings are on Ukrainian soil - but the copyright is not about physical objects but about the creative work of architect, so in fact it doesn't matter where the physical object is actually located to decide which law is applicable.
2012/10/4 Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com:
2012/10/4 Андрій Бондаренко bondareandre@gmail.com:
I need to look at these photos to be sure it is true.
Well - regarding the pictures which were assumed to be copyvio due to no freedom of panorama in Ukraine and showing buildings made by Polish architects before II World War - the case is not that obvious and IMHO should be carefully discussed - maybe even with help of professional lawyer.
I don't know anythingh about current Ukrainian law - but if we assume that
a) Lviv was Polish before II world war b) the architect was Polish citizen
The applicable copyrigh work for plans of builiding is rather Polish than Ukrainian.
Acutally the bulidings are on Ukrainian soil - but the copyright is not about physical objects but about the creative work of architect, so in fact it doesn't matter where the physical object is actually located to decide which law is applicable.
Morover:
Regarding Polish copyright law - copyright expires after 70 years after the death of the author - but except the case where it was a work for hire with transfer of copyright to the employer. In case of transfer of copyright of work for hire the copyright expires after 70 years of first publication of the work. In case of architectural works - the publication means to built a building as it can be seen by general public from the road. Architects are usually working for hire and they usually transfer copyright to the owner of the building. Overal - I think it is not very probable that the architectural works of Polish architects made before II World War are actually still copyrightable, and even if they are - as Polish law has a freedom of panorama and applicable law is rather Polish than Ukrainian - there is still no reason to delete the pictures...
On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 23:54:50 +0200, Tomasz Ganicz wrote:
2012/10/4 Андрій Бондаренко bondareandre@gmail.com:
I need to look at these photos to be sure it is true.
Well - regarding the pictures which were assumed to be copyvio due to no freedom of panorama in Ukraine and showing buildings made by Polish architects before II World War - the case is not that obvious and IMHO should be carefully discussed - maybe even with help of professional lawyer.
I don't know anythingh about current Ukrainian law - but if we assume that
a) Lviv was Polish before II world war b) the architect was Polish citizen
The applicable copyrigh work for plans of builiding is rather Polish than Ukrainian.
Acutally the bulidings are on Ukrainian soil - but the copyright is not about physical objects but about the creative work of architect, so in fact it doesn't matter where the physical object is actually located to decide which law is applicable.
I think it is most likely that the Ukrainian law applies here and the buildings are not free - on the other hand, ALL FoP-related deletions on Commons have to go through AfD. Speedy deletions of FoP cases are not appropriate - because there are legal issues involved, there are de minimis arguments, and speedy deletion is not an appropriate avenue to address them.
Cheers Yaroslav
I've had the same experience in the Philippines. It's because Wikimedia Commons has determined that the Philippines doesn't have Freedom of Panorama which according to a lawyer I've talked to mentioned is not exactly accurate, but the Commons administrator would still require an official ruling from our Intellectual Property rights office which could talk a long time.
Roel
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter putevod@mccme.ruwrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 23:54:50 +0200, Tomasz Ganicz wrote:
2012/10/4 Андрій Бондаренко bondareandre@gmail.com:
I need to look at these photos to be sure it is true.
Well - regarding the pictures which were assumed to be copyvio due to no freedom of panorama in Ukraine and showing buildings made by Polish architects before II World War - the case is not that obvious and IMHO should be carefully discussed - maybe even with help of professional lawyer.
I don't know anythingh about current Ukrainian law - but if we assume that
a) Lviv was Polish before II world war b) the architect was Polish citizen
The applicable copyrigh work for plans of builiding is rather Polish than Ukrainian.
Acutally the bulidings are on Ukrainian soil - but the copyright is not about physical objects but about the creative work of architect, so in fact it doesn't matter where the physical object is actually located to decide which law is applicable.
I think it is most likely that the Ukrainian law applies here and the buildings are not free - on the other hand, ALL FoP-related deletions on Commons have to go through AfD. Speedy deletions of FoP cases are not appropriate - because there are legal issues involved, there are de minimis arguments, and speedy deletion is not an appropriate avenue to address them.
Cheers Yaroslav
______________________________**_________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.**wikimedia.orgWikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/**wikilovesmonumentshttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.**org http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
I am sorry to read this thread. Good luck to all of you involved! Commuicating this to the uploaders must be very difficult, who I am sure will have trouble comprehending the finesses of the speedy deletion arguments. Jane
2012/10/5 Roel Balingit roel.balingit@wikimedia.org.ph
I've had the same experience in the Philippines. It's because Wikimedia Commons has determined that the Philippines doesn't have Freedom of Panorama which according to a lawyer I've talked to mentioned is not exactly accurate, but the Commons administrator would still require an official ruling from our Intellectual Property rights office which could talk a long time.
Roel
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter putevod@mccme.ruwrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 23:54:50 +0200, Tomasz Ganicz wrote:
2012/10/4 Андрій Бондаренко bondareandre@gmail.com:
I need to look at these photos to be sure it is true.
Well - regarding the pictures which were assumed to be copyvio due to no freedom of panorama in Ukraine and showing buildings made by Polish architects before II World War - the case is not that obvious and IMHO should be carefully discussed - maybe even with help of professional lawyer.
I don't know anythingh about current Ukrainian law - but if we assume that
a) Lviv was Polish before II world war b) the architect was Polish citizen
The applicable copyrigh work for plans of builiding is rather Polish than Ukrainian.
Acutally the bulidings are on Ukrainian soil - but the copyright is not about physical objects but about the creative work of architect, so in fact it doesn't matter where the physical object is actually located to decide which law is applicable.
I think it is most likely that the Ukrainian law applies here and the buildings are not free - on the other hand, ALL FoP-related deletions on Commons have to go through AfD. Speedy deletions of FoP cases are not appropriate - because there are legal issues involved, there are de minimis arguments, and speedy deletion is not an appropriate avenue to address them.
Cheers Yaroslav
______________________________**_________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.**wikimedia.orgWikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/**wikilovesmonumentshttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.**org http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
--
*ROEL BALINGIT* *Treasurer* *______________________________________________________________* *WIKIMEDIA PHILIPPINES* *G/F Gervacia Center, 152 Amorsolo Street, Legaspi Village, 1229 Makati City* *T: +63-2-8123277 | F: +63-2-8127177 | M: +63-917-8807635 * *W: **www.wikimedia.org.ph | E: roel.balingit@wikimedia.org.ph*
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Hi,
I suggest to have the factual copyright discussion on Wikimedia Commons. Otherwise it is kind of pointless, because the admins still will not see it :)
Andrij: I would also suggest to not call this kind of good faith vandalism - that is highly inappropriate. It may be unconstuctive, not according to the procedures etc - but you can assume that admins don't "vandalize".
Best, Lodewijk
2012/10/5 Roel Balingit roel.balingit@wikimedia.org.ph
I've had the same experience in the Philippines. It's because Wikimedia Commons has determined that the Philippines doesn't have Freedom of Panorama which according to a lawyer I've talked to mentioned is not exactly accurate, but the Commons administrator would still require an official ruling from our Intellectual Property rights office which could talk a long time.
Roel
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter putevod@mccme.ruwrote:
On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 23:54:50 +0200, Tomasz Ganicz wrote:
2012/10/4 Андрій Бондаренко bondareandre@gmail.com:
I need to look at these photos to be sure it is true.
Well - regarding the pictures which were assumed to be copyvio due to no freedom of panorama in Ukraine and showing buildings made by Polish architects before II World War - the case is not that obvious and IMHO should be carefully discussed - maybe even with help of professional lawyer.
I don't know anythingh about current Ukrainian law - but if we assume that
a) Lviv was Polish before II world war b) the architect was Polish citizen
The applicable copyrigh work for plans of builiding is rather Polish than Ukrainian.
Acutally the bulidings are on Ukrainian soil - but the copyright is not about physical objects but about the creative work of architect, so in fact it doesn't matter where the physical object is actually located to decide which law is applicable.
I think it is most likely that the Ukrainian law applies here and the buildings are not free - on the other hand, ALL FoP-related deletions on Commons have to go through AfD. Speedy deletions of FoP cases are not appropriate - because there are legal issues involved, there are de minimis arguments, and speedy deletion is not an appropriate avenue to address them.
Cheers Yaroslav
______________________________**_________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.**wikimedia.orgWikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/**wikilovesmonumentshttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.**org http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
--
*ROEL BALINGIT* *Treasurer* *______________________________________________________________* *WIKIMEDIA PHILIPPINES* *G/F Gervacia Center, 152 Amorsolo Street, Legaspi Village, 1229 Makati City* *T: +63-2-8123277 | F: +63-2-8127177 | M: +63-917-8807635 * *W: **www.wikimedia.org.ph | E: roel.balingit@wikimedia.org.ph*
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2012/10/5 Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org
Hi,
I suggest to have the factual copyright discussion on Wikimedia Commons. Otherwise it is kind of pointless, because the admins still will not see it :)
I don't know appropriate page in Commons for such discussion. If you know
please help,
Andrij: I would also suggest to not call this kind of good faith vandalism
- that is highly inappropriate.
It is exactly appropriate. Deletion without any attempt to talk with uploader is a vandalism, especially during the contest.
-- Regards, Andrij
I suggest to have the factual copyright discussion on Wikimedia Commons.
Otherwise it is kind of pointless, because the admins still will not see it :)
I don't know appropriate page in Commons for such discussion. If you know please help,
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright would have been a good start. The DR Tomasz linked is now.
Andrij: I would also suggest to not call this kind of good faith vandalism
- that is highly inappropriate.
It is exactly appropriate. Deletion without any attempt to talk with uploader is a vandalism, especially during the contest.
(Leaving FoP issues aside; no, it is not.)
wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org