Hi Rupert,
this was also suggested last year. I think certain types of collaboration should certainly be possible (as long as it doesn't change the fundamental character of the contest etc, but that speaks for itself). Last year there were also suggestions in this direction, but nothing happened in the end. If someone is willing to pick it up, investigate and follow the leads, it would certainly be welcome.
Best, Lodewijk
No dia Terça-feira, 24 de Janeiro de 2012, rupert THURNERrupert.thurner@gmail.com escreveu:
would there be any possibility to set up some collaboration with openstreetmappers?
rupert On Jan 16, 2012 10:59 PM, "Lodewijk" <lodewijk@effeietsanders.org<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'lodewijk@effeietsanders.org');>> wrote:
Hi all,
I guess it is time for a small update! Some work has been done already, but mainly behind the screens and as a follow up of what was discussed in Amsterdam in December. You can find already some start of documentation on what Wiki Loves Monuments is/will be like on http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2012/Document... (some things to be decided) and you will find an initial timeline for the international organization on http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2012/Timeline (thank you Tomasz!). An advised timeline for local organizing will follow at the same page, but it might be helpful to just scroll through it and appreciate the work ahead :)
If you want to get started with organizing Wiki Loves Monuments in your country, please don't hesitate to start making preperations! September 2012 is closer than you think. Past experiences teach that especially getting the infrastructure on the wiki (including getting the official lists) is the most time consuming task which has to happen ahead of time. For now, please add your country to http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2012 if you didn't do so yet.
I am also happy to be able to say that four volunteers with a lot of 2011 experience have been found to form a core coordination team for 2012 - Maarten (Multichill), Elke (Elya), Tomasz (Odder) and myself will be trying to coordinate efforts. Of course the main workload will still lay with the national teams and also internationally any help will be appreciated. We will do extra our best to create good documentation and I hope that you all will ask your questions here and on the wiki in a timely manner - that way we can avoid last minute discussions, misunderstanding and other issues. Communication is always a challange, so I hope you will help with that.
Also, the board of Wikimedia Nederland has indicated to be willing to be the budget holder for WLM 2012, and be the official organizer for the international contest - you shouldn't notice a lot of that as long as things go well, but we simply need an organization to be able to sign off on things (such as a world record attempt ;-) ). If there are no major objections, I'll ask the WMNL board to make that official soon. Also, we're trying to find the best way possible to ensure there is a good communication and task management on an international level. Last year we found in the evaluation that this was a bottle neck which caused several other things to go imperfect, so we're trying to find a way to give some professional support to the international coordination - that way we can make sure holes are being filled and there is a backbone present. I hope that will help make things run more smoothly that way.
I hope that 2012 will be an even greater contest - seeing all the interested countries from over the world I am both enthusiastic and a little intimidated - I hope we can set off a wonderful international event.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org');> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:59:23 +0100, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hi Rupert,
this was also suggested last year. I think certain types of
collaboration
should certainly be possible (as long as it doesn't change the
fundamental
character of the contest etc, but that speaks for itself). Last year
there
were also suggestions in this direction, but nothing happened in the
end.
If someone is willing to pick it up, investigate and follow the leads,
it
would certainly be welcome.
Best, Lodewijk
An obvious suggestion would be to produce OSM-based maps with the location of the monuments and to put them in the lists (similar to the Google Earth layer idea, but now it would be free), but (1) I do not know how easy this is to realize in an automatic or semi-automatic regime; (ii) there have been recently some license changes, I am not sure how they affect the compatibility.
Cheers Yaroslav
I doubt that would qualify as much of a collaboration :) Sure, we could (in which countries that makes sense) use OSM as the basis for the maps - but that is rather something for the local teams or communities to decide on anyways - most likely each community has a standing policy on this kind of things.
Best, Lodewijk
No dia 26 de Janeiro de 2012 10:10, Yaroslav M. Blanter putevod@mccme.ruescreveu:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:59:23 +0100, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Hi Rupert,
this was also suggested last year. I think certain types of
collaboration
should certainly be possible (as long as it doesn't change the
fundamental
character of the contest etc, but that speaks for itself). Last year
there
were also suggestions in this direction, but nothing happened in the
end.
If someone is willing to pick it up, investigate and follow the leads,
it
would certainly be welcome.
Best, Lodewijk
An obvious suggestion would be to produce OSM-based maps with the location of the monuments and to put them in the lists (similar to the Google Earth layer idea, but now it would be free), but (1) I do not know how easy this is to realize in an automatic or semi-automatic regime; (ii) there have been recently some license changes, I am not sure how they affect the compatibility.
Cheers Yaroslav
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
Op 26-1-2012 10:10, Yaroslav M. Blanter schreef:
An obvious suggestion would be to produce OSM-based maps with the location of the monuments and to put them in the lists (similar to the Google Earth layer idea, but now it would be free), but (1) I do not know how easy this is to realize in an automatic or semi-automatic regime; (ii) there have been recently some license changes, I am not sure how they affect the compatibility.
Like http://toolserver.org/~kolossos/wlm/wlm-on-osm_api.php ?
Maarten
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 23:17:01 +0100, Maarten Dammers maarten@mdammers.nl wrote:
Op 26-1-2012 10:10, Yaroslav M. Blanter schreef:
An obvious suggestion would be to produce OSM-based maps with the location of the monuments and to put them in the lists (similar to the Google Earth layer idea, but now it would be free), but (1) I do not know how easy this is to realize in an automatic or semi-automatic regime; (ii) there have been recently some license changes, I am not sure how they affect the compatibility.
Like http://toolserver.org/~kolossos/wlm/wlm-on-osm_api.php ?
Maarten
Yes, this is exactly what I had in mind. Amsterdam is special, but in most countries/cities monuments are alone-standing houses which are shon in OSM, and OSM may be also interested in marking them as monuments.
Cheers Yaroslav
2012/1/27 Yaroslav M. Blanter putevod@mccme.ru:
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 23:17:01 +0100, Maarten Dammers maarten@mdammers.nl wrote:
Op 26-1-2012 10:10, Yaroslav M. Blanter schreef:
An obvious suggestion would be to produce OSM-based maps with the location of the monuments and to put them in the lists (similar to the Google Earth layer idea, but now it would be free), but (1) I do not know how easy this is to realize in an automatic or semi-automatic regime; (ii) there have been recently some license changes, I am not sure how they affect the compatibility.
Like http://toolserver.org/~kolossos/wlm/wlm-on-osm_api.php ?
Maarten
Yes, this is exactly what I had in mind. Amsterdam is special, but in most countries/cities monuments are alone-standing houses which are shon in OSM, and OSM may be also interested in marking them as monuments.
We wanted to make such a cooperation with OSM Poland - but it failed - mainly due to lack of commitment from Polish OSM community. I guess - we should rather use OSM data and make our own map service, by adding our slice of data. OSM people generaly like to edit OSM maps and it is hard to persuade them to do something extra :-) This is just like persuading devoted Wikipedians to do something extra outside Wikipedia...
---- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
Tomasz Ganicz, 27/01/2012 23:43:
We wanted to make such a cooperation with OSM Poland - but it failed - mainly due to lack of commitment from Polish OSM community. I guess - we should rather use OSM data and make our own map service, by adding our slice of data. OSM people generaly like to edit OSM maps and it is hard to persuade them to do something extra :-)
Doesn't this produce any useful data for their maps?
Nemo
2012/1/29 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com:
Tomasz Ganicz, 27/01/2012 23:43:
We wanted to make such a cooperation with OSM Poland - but it failed - mainly due to lack of commitment from Polish OSM community. I guess - we should rather use OSM data and make our own map service, by adding our slice of data. OSM people generaly like to edit OSM maps and it is hard to persuade them to do something extra :-)
Doesn't this produce any useful data for their maps?
Yes, of course - I might imagine that they will incorporate our data to the OSM - they are using bots to mass-upload data if it is only possible from legal POV, just as we are doing this for Wikipedia :-) - but to find OSM people ready to join another project is as hard as persuade wikipedians to edit other non-Wikimedia projects :-)
On Jan 28, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com wrote:
2012/1/29 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com:
Tomasz Ganicz, 27/01/2012 23:43:
We wanted to make such a cooperation with OSM Poland - but it failed - mainly due to lack of commitment from Polish OSM community. I guess - we should rather use OSM data and make our own map service, by adding our slice of data. OSM people generaly like to edit OSM maps and it is hard to persuade them to do something extra :-)
Doesn't this produce any useful data for their maps?
Yes, of course - I might imagine that they will incorporate our data to the OSM - they are using bots to mass-upload data if it is only possible from legal POV, just as we are doing this for Wikipedia :-) - but to find OSM people ready to join another project is as hard as persuade wikipedians to edit other non-Wikimedia projects :-)
Wikipedia geocoordinates cannot (for most part) go into OSM. OSM is under European / UK law, which has database rights.
Wikipedia systematically often gets coordinates from google maps and earth, and is considered a data collection, and not clean in terms of db rights.
Wikipedia operates under US law and no database rights. Geocoordinates are facts and not copyright so we regard it okay to take coordinates from google
Katie
-- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
Several specific data sets though come directly from the governments and are not necessarily (depending on the country) scraped together from propriatory data sets. If a special license permission would be required from that, it would be good to know that ahead - but I would personally not invest any effort in that, given the lack of interest from OSM side.
Also, database rights do not automatically exist, like copyright of course - and I strongly doubt if in this specific case there would even be applicable database rights to the government collections, since the data were not collected to create value. (but that would require probably a more in depth discussion - again no interest to spend a lot of time on that given the lack of interest)
Best, Lodewijk
No dia 29 de Janeiro de 2012 00:31, aude aude.wiki@gmail.com escreveu:
On Jan 28, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com wrote:
2012/1/29 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com:
Tomasz Ganicz, 27/01/2012 23:43:
We wanted to make such a cooperation with OSM Poland - but it failed -
mainly due to lack of commitment from Polish OSM community. I guess - we should rather use OSM data and make our own map service, by adding our slice of data. OSM people generaly like to edit OSM maps and it is hard to persuade them to do something extra :-)
Doesn't this produce any useful data for their maps?
Yes, of course - I might imagine that they will incorporate our data to the OSM - they are using bots to mass-upload data if it is only possible from legal POV, just as we are doing this for Wikipedia :-) - but to find OSM people ready to join another project is as hard as persuade wikipedians to edit other non-Wikimedia projects :-)
Wikipedia geocoordinates cannot (for most part) go into OSM. OSM is under European / UK law, which has database rights.
Wikipedia systematically often gets coordinates from google maps and earth, and is considered a data collection, and not clean in terms of db rights.
Wikipedia operates under US law and no database rights. Geocoordinates are facts and not copyright so we regard it okay to take coordinates from google
Katie
--
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/**User:Polimerekhttp://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.**php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganiczhttp://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
______________________________**_________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.**wikimedia.orgWikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/**wikilovesmonumentshttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.**eu http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
______________________________**_________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.**wikimedia.orgWikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/**wikilovesmonumentshttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.**eu http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
2012/1/29 aude aude.wiki@gmail.com:
On Jan 28, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com wrote:
2012/1/29 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com:
Tomasz Ganicz, 27/01/2012 23:43:
We wanted to make such a cooperation with OSM Poland - but it failed - mainly due to lack of commitment from Polish OSM community. I guess - we should rather use OSM data and make our own map service, by adding our slice of data. OSM people generaly like to edit OSM maps and it is hard to persuade them to do something extra :-)
Doesn't this produce any useful data for their maps?
Yes, of course - I might imagine that they will incorporate our data to the OSM - they are using bots to mass-upload data if it is only possible from legal POV, just as we are doing this for Wikipedia :-) - but to find OSM people ready to join another project is as hard as persuade wikipedians to edit other non-Wikimedia projects :-)
Wikipedia geocoordinates cannot (for most part) go into OSM. OSM is under European / UK law, which has database rights.
Wikipedia systematically often gets coordinates from google maps and earth, and is considered a data collection, and not clean in terms of db rights.
Wikipedia operates under US law and no database rights. Geocoordinates are facts and not copyright so we regard it okay to take coordinates from google
I was talking about coords from Wiki Loves Monuments - which are in case of most EU countires taken from official govermental lists of monumens - which are usually PD as govermental documents + data retrieved from WLM contributors; cameras and GPS receiviers.
On Jan 28, 2012, at 6:42 PM, Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com wrote:
2012/1/29 aude aude.wiki@gmail.com:
On Jan 28, 2012, at 6:17 PM, Tomasz Ganicz polimerek@gmail.com wrote:
2012/1/29 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com:
Tomasz Ganicz, 27/01/2012 23:43:
We wanted to make such a cooperation with OSM Poland - but it failed - mainly due to lack of commitment from Polish OSM community. I guess - we should rather use OSM data and make our own map service, by adding our slice of data. OSM people generaly like to edit OSM maps and it is hard to persuade them to do something extra :-)
Doesn't this produce any useful data for their maps?
Yes, of course - I might imagine that they will incorporate our data to the OSM - they are using bots to mass-upload data if it is only possible from legal POV, just as we are doing this for Wikipedia :-) - but to find OSM people ready to join another project is as hard as persuade wikipedians to edit other non-Wikimedia projects :-)
Wikipedia geocoordinates cannot (for most part) go into OSM. OSM is under European / UK law, which has database rights.
Wikipedia systematically often gets coordinates from google maps and earth, and is considered a data collection, and not clean in terms of db rights.
Wikipedia operates under US law and no database rights. Geocoordinates are facts and not copyright so we regard it okay to take coordinates from google
I was talking about coords from Wiki Loves Monuments - which are in case of most EU countires taken from official govermental lists of monumens - which are usually PD as govermental documents + data retrieved from WLM contributors; cameras and GPS receiviers.
I think data and cooperation with wikipedia might still be regarded with some skeptism. data directly from government sources with proper , compatible licensing could be okay but then some osm people also frown upon data imports generally and that data imports discourage local mapping communities to form and grow and thrive. (I am personally okay with careful imports by local mappers, but it like inclusionist va deletionist type debate)
What might work is a joint osm mapping / photo excursion or event
And osm data -> wikipedia is okay license-wise, even with osm's looming switch to the open database license.
Katie
-- Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/ http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.eu
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