Hi Lodewikk and thanks for this summary.
Regarding your 3 points:
1. If you decide so, Swiss chapter will only present pictures uploaded in
September to the European contest. This is absolutely not a problem for us
2. As soon as the simplifed form will be available, we will update our
procedure to include it. So far, I didn't receive any complain on this
topic, so we can continue like this until you are ready. Don't worry for us
3. To my best knowledge, the only advertizement done on the Swiss contest
outside the country is... this mailing list. We don't plan any communication
outside the country so it's only up to all of you close this topic and not
heard about us anymore.
I would only add a 4th point : there is still a lot of work till September
for all of us. Therefore, I strongly suggest everybody to concentrate all
our energy in usefull work to make the contest a success.
With best regards,
Nico
2011/7/5 Lodewijk <lodewijk(a)effeietsanders.org>
Hello all,
It is wonderful we finally have a good conversation about this.
There are several reasons why we should have the same dates throughout
Europe - we discussed those both in Berlin and on this mailing list. I will
not bore anyone with them right now though, because it doesn't matter any
more. I'd love to have this discussion in depth, but let's do that elsewhere
(I would recommand though to read through the meeting minutes of Berlin).
The current situation is simple: Wikimedia Switzerland decided (and I
still disagree with that strongly) to ignore the agreed timeframe - for
whatever reason. Since the contest is now already ongoing for them, it
doesn't matter much any more for the contest.
Besides the time frame, there is the issue of the upload pipeline. This is
another topic we agreed on together - and also here there are very good (and
obvious) reasons: uploading should be as easy as possible. Right now, the
pipeline of WMCH required participants to register *both* on Wikimedia
Commons and on their website, to upload the images through the regular
Commons upload system, to manually tag them (not with any monument ID btw)
and thén to mark them through the contest website. This is totally different
from the intended and agreed pipeline, which is much more simple: Create an
account on Commons, use the special, simplified upload form - enter the
monument identifier and done. We will take care of the rest.
There are a few things we need to resolve:
1. Which images are admissible for the European competition
2. How can we simplify the uploading methods currently in place (which are
even more complicated than normal upload procedures.)
3. How do we communicate this all
For 1. I think that it doesn't help anyone to exclude images from
Switzerland. However, the monuments uploaded through commons currently lack
identifiers - as long as they miss those, they are not eligible. (But I
assume that can be fixed). An alternative could be to only accept images
uploaded between 1 and 30 september. Please note that it was already in the
plan that it wouldn't matter to us *when* the photo was taken, but only when
it was uploaded. I cannot make this decision by myself though.
For 2. I think it would be best if WMCH would simplify their procedures as
much as possible. Not because we agreed, but because that improves
participation. There will become tooling available for easier uploading but
that will be become available at the agreed upon time schedule. We can't
speed this up for you. You could consider hacking together a form like WMNL
used last year to significantly simplify uploading. Please check the post
mortem 2010 for more information.
For 3. I think it would help if we could consider July/August as a "silent
start" - trying to persuade your partners to not advertize it too loudly
until September 1. That way potential participants can enjoy the then
available tooling and more easy upload system. I know this is uncomfortable,
but I would really appreciate it if you could postpone publicizing as much
as possible until September.
I hope that the hostile tone can be left behind - fights over independence
and agreements will help nobody. Let's try to reduce damage and find a
middle way.
Best regards,
Lodewijk
2011/7/5 Ilario Valdelli <valdelli(a)gmail.com>
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 5:57 PM, GoEthe.wiki
<goethe.wiki(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
I think the point is: maybe it would also have
advantages for other
countries to do the contest in different times, duration, etc., but we
decided as a group to have it simultaneously for logistic, promotional
and
fairness reasons.
And we have decided to have it in summer for the same reason.
It's not a question of advantage, it's a question for a better
logistic, a better promotion and a better fairness reason.
The question is simple, If we had received a negative answer to Nico's
question, surely we would sit down and discuss with the partners
whether there was possible to participate. I can anticipate that the
question was probably negative.
The decision of the Swiss contest has been a shared decision not with
the chapters, but with the partners, which are directly involved in
this national organization.
I agree that the European contest must be a decision taken by the
chapters, but the National contest is a decision taken by the local
chapter and the partners and they must decide the best solution to
have a successful event.
Now Switzerland in a middle of a dispute: to comply with the decision
of the chapters or to comply with the decision of the partners.
It seems to me honest to say that we would respect the decision of the
partners for the Swiss contest because it is a local organization and
the partners participate with their internal resources, we would
respect the decision of the chapters for the European contest because
it is a shared decision and there is no sense to have an independent
decision.
Ilario
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