WikiLovesMonuments August 2015

wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org

25 participants
18 discussions

Instagram and Creative Commons
by Andrea Zanni 27 Nov '22

27 Nov '22

Dear all, a doubt: is Instagram compatible with Creative Commons? Can I upload *my* Instagram pics on Commons (so could it be used for WLM)? Please consider that I'm not suggesting Instagram pics are good for WLM (they are filtered and all, probably not very suitable for illustrating monuments on Wikipedia) but is a legal matter. Aubrey

5 6

wiki love monuments application for andriode and IOS
by Bachounda Mohammed 05 Jul '16

05 Jul '16

hi to all if any person, can help me to contacting the developers of android and IOS WLM ; i wish contact him for new deal bachounda --

7 8

ErfgoedBot status
by Jean-Frédéric 13 Sep '15

13 Sep '15

Hi all, ErfgoedBot is running again and the Monuments database was updated. There are still issues going on that are being sorted out − in particular, several countries have not been harvested properly (see [T110420] for list). Please report (best by filing a task on Phabricator, or by emailing here or me directly) any problem you notice with the Monuments database. Cheers, [T110420] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T110420 -- Jean-Fred

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Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
by Romaine Wiki 31 Aug '15

31 Aug '15

Hello Megan & Andrea, Thank you for the message and the hard work done! Greetings, Romaine ---- international organiser of Wiki Loves Monuments 2015-08-31 13:02 GMT+02:00 Megan Hernandez <mhernandez(a)wikimedia.org>: > Below is a message that Andrea Zanni, President of Wikimedia Italia, and I > have written together. > > Hi everyone, > > Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feedback. We would like to fill you > in on the background work and conversations between Wikimedia Italia and > WMF. > > There was a scheduling problem to solve between two very important > campaigns for the movement. Wiki Loves Monuments is a major contribution > campaign and annual effort. Fundraising campaigns fund the movement and > the team has a difficult goal this year with quarterly targets to meet. > Direct communication was needed to work through the issue. > > WMIT and WMF have been talking through the situation and many possible > solutions over the past few weeks. Through very honest and respectful phone > and email conversations, we were able to reach a mutual understanding of > the issue and decided to move the fundraising campaign after Wiki Loves > Monuments. We reached this agreement over the weekend (actually several > hours before the RfC was posted online), but an immediate reply was not > sent because we wanted to coordinate an update to the list. Weekend > coordination is tricky, which is why this email is being sent on Monday. > > Postponing the Italian fundraising campaign means for the first time in at > least 4 years, the fundraising team will not be meeting a target. The team > will pick up extra work in October to make up for work missed in September. > It's not possible to do two months of work in one month, so there will need > to be adjustments later throughout the year to make up for missing the > September target. > > Wikimedia Italia and the WMF fundraising team have collaborated in the past > on several projects (chapter banner and email campaigns as well as > fundraising campaigns). We are currently working together on ways to get > more contributors to WLM in Italy this year and on the upcoming fundraiser. > We’ll work on communication and will share mutual expertise. We look > forward to continuing to grow the relationship and working more closely > going forward. > > It’s clear we need a better process to coordinate campaigns. We are a vast > and complex movement, so communication is key. Together with the Community > Engagement team, we are thinking of ways to improve and we appreciate your > effort toward this improvement. Reasonable and respectful communication is > how we were able to reach a solution, we need to build from this going > forward. > > Thank you to everyone who provided constructive ideas to help solve the > problem. Best of luck to all the WLM campaigns that launch tomorrow! Thank > you for all your work on WLM, we’re all looking forward to seeing the new > contributions this year. > > > Megan Hernandez and Andrea Zanni > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 12:47 PM, Peter Southwood < > peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> wrote: > > > Interesting that this happens just after the RFC is started. Maybe no > > relevance... > > Cheers, > > P > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: wikimedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org [mailto: > > wikimedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Zanni > > Sent: Sunday, 30 August 2015 10:21 PM > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List; Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition > > Cc: Wikimedia Chapters general discussions > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments in > > Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising > > > > Hello everybody. > > I'm happy to announce that the Wikimedia Foundation has decided not to > run > > the Fundraising banner in Italy during September. > > > > In the last week, the Fundraising Team and Wikimedia Italia's board > worked > > hard together to find a common solution. In these very last days, we > > continued a very honest and direct conversation. > > I just received the news, and I'm glad to share it with you all. > > > > I personally think that the Fundraising Team made a brave move (as they > > will not likely meet the fundraising goals), and would love to see it > > welcomed with the respect it deserves. > > > > Best regards > > > > Andrea > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Steinsplitter Wiki < > > steinsplitter-wiki(a)live.com> wrote: > > > > > Thank you Romaine for setting up the RFC on meta [1]! > > > > > > So we can see what the community thinks about this. > > > > > > [1] > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banne > > > r_or_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_banner > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 19:04:41 +0200 > > > > From: romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com > > > > To: wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org; > > > wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves > > > > Monuments > > > in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > Having spoken with some people, I have come to the conclusion that > > > > it is time to ask the Wikimedia community what they think about this > > > situation. I > > > > have especially seen both parties, the Wiki Loves Monuments > > > > organising teams who like to have a banner for Wiki Loves Monuments > > > > in September, > > > and > > > > the WMF Fundraising team who likes to have a fundraising banner in > > > > September. Then the question remains: what has more value for the > > > Wikimedia > > > > movement? > > > > > > > > To find out what the Wikimedia community thinks about this > > > > situation, I have set up this Request for Comment: > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banne > > > r_or_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_banner > > > > > > > > Romaine > > > > > > > > 2015-08-30 15:35 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com>: > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > New update: > > > > > > > > > > The Italian team had some calls with the fundraising team and it > > > resulted > > > > > in: > > > > > * Wiki Loves Monuments gets the whole 4th week of September. So we > > > > > will have the WLM banner alone the first and the last week. > > > > > * WLM IT is discussing with the community a message in the Main > > > > > Page of Wikipedia > > > > > * WMF will try to put a link to WLM in the banner > > > > > * WMF will put a link to WLM in the Thank You letter for donors. > > > > > * WMF is helping WLM Italy with a blogpost in the blog, and social > > > media > > > > > fire > > > > > > > > > > They made clear this won't happen again. > > > > > > > > > > To me, the only improvements is their promise it won't happen > > > > > again, > > > what > > > > > we certainly keep them having their promise in future, and that > > > > > the > > > amount > > > > > of time the Wiki Loves Monuments banner is shown will be 50% of > > > > > the > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > The rest of the outcomes is lousy and they sold us empty boxes. > > > > > Wiki > > > Loves > > > > > Monuments depends for about 99% on a CentralNotice banner. Most > > > visitors to > > > > > Wikipedia do not visit the main page of a wiki. I do not believe a > > > small > > > > > link to WLM in a large fundraising banner would help or is seen. I > > > > > do > > > not > > > > > believe that a link in the Thank You letter for donors would work. > > > > > A blogpost will be written anyway, as Wiki Loves Monuments is the > > > > > largest project of the Wikimedia movement, but still it would not > > > > > reach to the > > > core > > > > > people Wiki Loves Monuments is aiming at. And a social media fire, > > > > > I > > > have > > > > > no believe in it that WMF would have any control in such and the > > > > > core infrastructure is not under control by WMF. > > > > > > > > > > And still no explanation why it is not possible to move the > > > > > fundraising banner to a month later... > > > > > > > > > > I can only conclude that we have been put off, in Dutch: > > > > > afgescheept worden (literally: being shipped of). > > > > > > > > > > At such having a blocking banner is sad news. A competition is > > > > > large ruined by it. > > > > > > > > > > What I consider the most demotivating is the play the fundraising > > > > > team > > > of > > > > > WMF has played. I certainly do not consider it fair play. Too many > > > empty > > > > > promises, dividing the community to get less resistance, no fair > > > > > negotiations, usage of the inexperience of volunteers, and more. > > > > > > > > > > And even after explaining the community perspective many times by > > > multiple > > > > > people, I still have the impression some people in WMF still do > > > > > not > > > really > > > > > get it. > > > > > > > > > > I had the occasion in the past weeks that I spoke with people from > > > > > WMF > > > who > > > > > are working for the foundation for some years, and I had to > > > > > explain > > > what > > > > > Wiki Loves Monuments is. (And that was not the first time.) It is > > > > > the largest project of the movement, recognised as largest photo > > > > > contest > > > in the > > > > > world, and some WMF people do not know or understand. I was so > > > friendly to > > > > > explain it of course, but it gave mixed feelings. > > > > > > > > > > And even after explaining the community perspective many times by > > > multiple > > > > > people, they do not really get it. > > > > > > > > > > Lessons to be learned: > > > > > * Do not assume that the fundraising team takes the best position > > > > > for > > > the > > > > > movement, they have a target to make. > > > > > * Do not assume the fundraising team plays a fair play. They have > > > > > a > > > lot of > > > > > weight and use it. > > > > > * Do not assume that their first offer (in case of a blocking > > > > > banner) > > > is a > > > > > balanced, reasonable and well thought one. > > > > > * Do not expect them to know how much the impact is of something. > > > > > * Do expect them to offer empty shells/boxes/etc and are not > > > > > impressed > > > by > > > > > those. > > > > > * Say always no if they ask if a blocking banner or two banners at > > > > > the same time is okay. It has a devastating effect on your > > > > > results. Yes you can, some chapters did and that was taken into > > account seriously. > > > > > * Always have the complete team involved in the communication, and > > > > > even think of asking advisers (from outside WMF) for support and > > > > > feedback > > > on the > > > > > proposals. Always have someone involved who has years of > > > > > experience in > > > this > > > > > matter, otherwise you loose and the whole community looses. > > > > > > > > > > But I think the best lesson learned is: with every blocking > > > > > banner, let the community publicly decide what should be chosen. > > > > > > > > > > Romaine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2015-08-30 14:00 GMT+02:00 Steinsplitter Wiki < > > > steinsplitter-wiki(a)live.com > > > > > >: > > > > > > > > > >> I 100% agree with rupert's thoughts. > > > > >> > > > > >> Wiki(p|m)edia was and is mad be volunteers, therefore volunteer > > > > >> first should apply. Volunteers are contributing the content for > > > > >> exactly zero dollars per hour. It is all because of free > > > > >> knowledge and other > > > stuff, but > > > > >> not about money. It looks like money is fore some people moor > > > important > > > > >> than free knowledge. It is frustrating... > > > > >> > > > > >> Regards, > > > > >> Steinsplitter > > > > >> > > > > >> > From: rupert.thurner(a)gmail.com > > > > >> > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 21:35:46 +0200 > > > > >> > To: janbart(a)wikimedia.org; patricio.lorente(a)gmail.com; > > > > >> me.lyzzy(a)gmail.com; ubifrieda(a)gmail.com; jmh649(a)gmail.com; > > > > >> darekj(a)alk.edu.pl; denny.vrandecic(a)kit.edu; jwales(a)wikia.com; > > > > >> stu(a)wikimedia.org > > > > >> > CC: wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org; > > > > >> wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > >> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves > > > Monuments > > > > >> in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising > > > > >> > > > > > >> > dear board, > > > > >> > > > > > >> > allow me to directly ask you to stop these fundraising persons > > > > >> > to > > > spoil > > > > >> > wiki loves monuments because of less than intelligent KPIs. WMF > > > cannot > > > > >> and > > > > >> > should not behave like an elephant in the porcelain shop. there > > > > >> > is a > > > > >> simple > > > > >> > technical solution to the problem below, to have a combined > > > > >> > banner > > > for > > > > >> WLM > > > > >> > and donation. it is impossible that more money at stake as is > > > covered by > > > > >> > the reserves, isn't it? i am really lacking words here ... the > > > > >> > only > > > > >> ones i > > > > >> > could find would not be compliant with the friendly space > policy. > > > if we > > > > >> as > > > > >> > movement do not follow through the "volunteer first" rule than > > > > >> > it is > > > > >> better > > > > >> > to dissolve WMF, or split it in two parts, one holding the > > > > >> > rights > > > to the > > > > >> > web URLs, i.e. right to banner, the other one employing all the > > > people > > > > >> > doing some work. > > > > >> > > > > > >> > best, > > > > >> > rupert > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Andrea Zanni < > > > zanni.andrea84(a)gmail.com > > > > >> > > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Hello everyone. > > > > >> > > Sorry for the long mail but we wanted to explain the > > > > >> > > situation for Wikimedia Italia. > > > > >> > > The conversation is going on and it's better to clear some > > > important > > > > >> > > points. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > In the second week of August Wikimedia Italia has been > > > > >> > > contacted > > > by > > > > >> > > Kalliope Tsouroupidou and later by Jessica Robell, who > > > > >> > > explained > > > that > > > > >> the > > > > >> > > Wikimedia Foundation was planning to have a fundraising > > > > >> > > campaign > > > in > > > > >> Italy > > > > >> > > in September. > > > > >> > > We have been surprised by that, since Wiki Loves Monuments is > > > > >> well-known to > > > > >> > > run in September, and it has been like that for years. > > > > >> > > Moreover, there has been a similar clash in 2014: we > > > > >> > > discussed > > > for > > > > >> several > > > > >> > > days, and in the end we reached a compromise, and the FR > > > > >> > > banners > > > went > > > > >> live > > > > >> > > just for the last days. > > > > >> > > It was not perfect, but we had WLM banners for almost all > > > September. > > > > >> > > This year the clash is on the whole month of September. Given > > > > >> > > the > > > > >> history, > > > > >> > > and the very fact that Wikimedia Italia has planned WLM and > > > written > > > > >> so in > > > > >> > > the FDC application, we feel that WMIT has not been > > > > >> > > negligible in > > > > >> matters > > > > >> > > of > > > > >> > > communication. > > > > >> > > We are not *happy* with the situation, the very existence of > > > > >> > > the clash, the fact that all this appeared > > > in > > > > >> the > > > > >> > > middle of August, while we were all on holiday and just few > > > > >> > > weeks > > > > >> before > > > > >> > > the beginning of WLM. > > > > >> > > We just decided not to pick up a fight, as we believe in > > > constructive > > > > >> > > conversation and negotiation. > > > > >> > > The agreement we reached is very painful for WMIT and WLM: > > > > >> > > it's > > > just > > > > >> better > > > > >> > > than not having the banners at all, or to have them for just > > > > >> > > a few > > > > >> days in > > > > >> > > the middle of September. > > > > >> > > Conversations with the FR team has been firm, but polite: > > > > >> > > this > > > does > > > > >> not > > > > >> > > mean that we are happy about what is happening. > > > > >> > > Moreover, we will have to discuss with FDC to renegotiate > > > > >> > > expected > > > > >> results > > > > >> > > for WLM in 2015. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Having the fundraising campaign in September in Italy has a > > > > >> > > clear > > > > >> negative > > > > >> > > impact on Wiki Loves Monuments, the largest project of > > > > >> > > Wikimedia > > > > >> Italia. > > > > >> > > This will not only likely reduce the number of participants > > > > >> > > and > > > > >> uploaded > > > > >> > > pictures, but will also put us in a difficult position in > > > > >> > > front > > > of our > > > > >> > > sponsors and partners, including 200+ municipalities, 100+ > > > cultural > > > > >> > > institutions, and some major partners, like FIAF (the > > > > >> > > Federation > > > of > > > > >> Italian > > > > >> > > photographers' associations), ICOM (the International Council > > > > >> > > of > > > > >> Museums), > > > > >> > > the Toscana Foto Festival (a major photo festival), Touring > > > > >> > > Club > > > > >> Italiano > > > > >> > > (the largest Italian touristic association), and others. WMIT > > > spends > > > > >> > > thousands of euros in WLM each year - not because we waste > > > > >> > > money, > > > but > > > > >> > > because we have higher stakes. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > This year, we will have in the Italian Jury international > > > > >> > > renowned photographers like (prabably: yet to be confirmed) > > > > >> > > Steve McCurry ( > > > > >> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_McCurry) and Franco > > > > >> > > Fontana ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Fontana). > > > > >> > > This year, in June, we were received by several politicians > > > > >> > > from > > > the > > > > >> > > Italian Parliament for an official meeting regarding the law > > > > >> > > we > > > are > > > > >> > > fighting > > > > >> > > as WMIT. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Because of the specific challenges we face, WLM in Italy goes > > > beyond > > > > >> being > > > > >> > > a photographic competition and is also an opportunity to > > > > >> > > create relationships and advocate for the freedom of taking > > > > >> > > pictures of > > > > >> monuments. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Italy does not have "freedom of panorama". > > > > >> > > Worst, Italy does not have freedom of panorama for any kind > > > > >> > > of > > > > >> monuments, > > > > >> > > even if copyright has expired. > > > > >> > > We need to ask for permission to make pictures of monuments. > > For. > > > > >> Every. > > > > >> > > Monument. > > > > >> > > We have to create lists of monuments to be photographed. > > > > >> > > There is > > > no > > > > >> > > official list of monuments in Italy. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > There is *extensive* documentation here: > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Italian_cultural_heritage_on_the_Wikim > > > edia_projects > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > This is very important to know to put in perspective WLM > > > > >> > > Italy > > > stats: > > > > >> > > http://stats.wikilovesmonuments.cl/italy. As an example, it > > > > >> > > is > > > the > > > > >> reason > > > > >> > > why we have so many participants who contribute for few pics > > > each. In > > > > >> 2014 > > > > >> > > alone, we had 1038 uploaders, but we were only 6th in terms > > > > >> > > of > > > number > > > > >> of > > > > >> > > photos. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > The global fundraising is essential to our movement. > > > > >> > > It funds Wikipedia operations, software development, the > > > > >> > > Wikimedia Foundation, many chapters and affiliates, and, of > > > > >> > > course, also > > > Wiki > > > > >> Loves > > > > >> > > Monuments (even tough in Italy it is primarily funded from > > > > >> > > other > > > > >> sources). > > > > >> > > The global fundraising is meant to support the Wikimedia > > movement: > > > > >> but, for > > > > >> > > this very reason, it is a pity to have it clashing to one of > > > > >> > > the > > > very > > > > >> > > activities it is meant to support. > > > > >> > > Especially since we are not talking about a 2 hours editathon > > > > >> > > in a > > > > >> small > > > > >> > > library in the middle of nowhere, but about an international > > > > >> competition > > > > >> > > who ended up in the Guinnes World Records, bringing thousands > > > > >> > > of > > > > >> pictures > > > > >> > > to the Wikimedia projects. > > > > >> > > We understand that fundraising is not an easy job, especially > > > when it > > > > >> is > > > > >> > > done on a global level. Yet we feel obliged to use donors > > > > >> > > money to > > > > >> build > > > > >> > > and deliver the best projects we can: firstly out of respect > > > > >> > > for > > > all > > > > >> the > > > > >> > > people who decided to donate their time, their money or their > > > career > > > > >> to the > > > > >> > > movement; secondly because a badly executed projects could > > > > >> > > also > > > have a > > > > >> > > negative impact on the next fundraising campaigns. > > > > >> > > We are all part of the same movement: the work of the WMF > > > fundraising > > > > >> team > > > > >> > > is strictly linked to that of the community. We would like to > > > > >> > > be > > > > >> confident > > > > >> > > that what is happening now won't happen for a third time, and > > > that in > > > > >> the > > > > >> > > future we will be able to communicate more effectively and > > > > >> > > work > > > more > > > > >> > > collaboratively. > > > > >> > > We really are looking forward a more effective cooperation > > > > >> > > with > > > WMF > > > > >> and all > > > > >> > > other Wikimedia Affiliates: collaboration is the very pillar > > > > >> > > of > > > all > > > > >> the > > > > >> > > Wikimedia movement. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > We would like to thank all the people who supported us and > > > > >> > > gave us > > > > >> opinions > > > > >> > > and advices on this mailing list and elsewhere. > > > > >> > > We are very proud to be part of such a great community, and > > > > >> > > we > > > would > > > > >> like > > > > >> > > to see it become wider and bigger. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Andrea Zanni > > > > >> > > for the board of Wikimedia Italia > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > >> > > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > >> > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > > >> , > > > > >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > >> > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > >> > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscri > > > > >> be> > > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > >> Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > >> < > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@li > > > sts.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > > >> Unsubscribe: > > > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > , > > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscri > > > > >> be> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > ----- > > No virus found in this message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 2015.0.6086 / Virus Database: 4409/10544 - Release Date: > 08/30/15 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > -- > > Megan Hernandez > > Director of Online Fundraising > Wikimedia Foundation > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >

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Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
by Romaine Wiki 30 Aug '15

30 Aug '15

Yes, sorry, they did *not* communicate it with me. They finally came to a great decision, it would have been perfect if they had just made a public announcement here. Romaine 2015-08-31 0:26 GMT+02:00 MF-Warburg <mfwarburg(a)googlemail.com>: > Did you mean they did /not/ tell you? > > 2015-08-31 0:16 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com>: > > > The most annoying part now is that the fundraising team did tell me thta, > > while I ma in change of the banners. > > > > How is it possible that they do worse and worse each time? > > > > Romaine > > > > 2015-08-30 22:20 GMT+02:00 Andrea Zanni <zanni.andrea84(a)gmail.com>: > > > > > Hello everybody. > > > I'm happy to announce that the Wikimedia Foundation has decided not to > > run > > > the Fundraising banner in Italy during September. > > > > > > In the last week, the Fundraising Team and Wikimedia Italia's board > > worked > > > hard together to find a common solution. In these very last days, we > > > continued a very honest and direct conversation. > > > I just received the news, and I'm glad to share it with you all. > > > > > > I personally think that the Fundraising Team made a brave move (as they > > > will not likely meet the fundraising goals), and would love to see it > > > welcomed with the respect it deserves. > > > > > > Best regards > > > > > > Andrea > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Steinsplitter Wiki < > > > steinsplitter-wiki(a)live.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Thank you Romaine for setting up the RFC on meta [1]! > > > > > > > > So we can see what the community thinks about this. > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banner_or_… > > > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 19:04:41 +0200 > > > > > From: romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com > > > > > To: wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org; > > > > wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves > > Monuments > > > > in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > Having spoken with some people, I have come to the conclusion that > it > > > is > > > > > time to ask the Wikimedia community what they think about this > > > > situation. I > > > > > have especially seen both parties, the Wiki Loves Monuments > > organising > > > > > teams who like to have a banner for Wiki Loves Monuments in > > September, > > > > and > > > > > the WMF Fundraising team who likes to have a fundraising banner in > > > > > September. Then the question remains: what has more value for the > > > > Wikimedia > > > > > movement? > > > > > > > > > > To find out what the Wikimedia community thinks about this > > situation, I > > > > > have set up this Request for Comment: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banner_or_… > > > > > > > > > > Romaine > > > > > > > > > > 2015-08-30 15:35 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com>: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > New update: > > > > > > > > > > > > The Italian team had some calls with the fundraising team and it > > > > resulted > > > > > > in: > > > > > > * Wiki Loves Monuments gets the whole 4th week of September. So > we > > > will > > > > > > have the WLM banner alone the first and the last week. > > > > > > * WLM IT is discussing with the community a message in the Main > > Page > > > of > > > > > > Wikipedia > > > > > > * WMF will try to put a link to WLM in the banner > > > > > > * WMF will put a link to WLM in the Thank You letter for donors. > > > > > > * WMF is helping WLM Italy with a blogpost in the blog, and > social > > > > media > > > > > > fire > > > > > > > > > > > > They made clear this won't happen again. > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, the only improvements is their promise it won't happen > > again, > > > > what > > > > > > we certainly keep them having their promise in future, and that > the > > > > amount > > > > > > of time the Wiki Loves Monuments banner is shown will be 50% of > the > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > The rest of the outcomes is lousy and they sold us empty boxes. > > Wiki > > > > Loves > > > > > > Monuments depends for about 99% on a CentralNotice banner. Most > > > > visitors to > > > > > > Wikipedia do not visit the main page of a wiki. I do not believe > a > > > > small > > > > > > link to WLM in a large fundraising banner would help or is seen. > I > > do > > > > not > > > > > > believe that a link in the Thank You letter for donors would > work. > > A > > > > > > blogpost will be written anyway, as Wiki Loves Monuments is the > > > largest > > > > > > project of the Wikimedia movement, but still it would not reach > to > > > the > > > > core > > > > > > people Wiki Loves Monuments is aiming at. And a social media > fire, > > I > > > > have > > > > > > no believe in it that WMF would have any control in such and the > > core > > > > > > infrastructure is not under control by WMF. > > > > > > > > > > > > And still no explanation why it is not possible to move the > > > fundraising > > > > > > banner to a month later... > > > > > > > > > > > > I can only conclude that we have been put off, in Dutch: > > afgescheept > > > > > > worden (literally: being shipped of). > > > > > > > > > > > > At such having a blocking banner is sad news. A competition is > > large > > > > > > ruined by it. > > > > > > > > > > > > What I consider the most demotivating is the play the fundraising > > > team > > > > of > > > > > > WMF has played. I certainly do not consider it fair play. Too > many > > > > empty > > > > > > promises, dividing the community to get less resistance, no fair > > > > > > negotiations, usage of the inexperience of volunteers, and more. > > > > > > > > > > > > And even after explaining the community perspective many times by > > > > multiple > > > > > > people, I still have the impression some people in WMF still do > not > > > > really > > > > > > get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > I had the occasion in the past weeks that I spoke with people > from > > > WMF > > > > who > > > > > > are working for the foundation for some years, and I had to > explain > > > > what > > > > > > Wiki Loves Monuments is. (And that was not the first time.) It is > > the > > > > > > largest project of the movement, recognised as largest photo > > contest > > > > in the > > > > > > world, and some WMF people do not know or understand. I was so > > > > friendly to > > > > > > explain it of course, but it gave mixed feelings. > > > > > > > > > > > > And even after explaining the community perspective many times by > > > > multiple > > > > > > people, they do not really get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lessons to be learned: > > > > > > * Do not assume that the fundraising team takes the best position > > for > > > > the > > > > > > movement, they have a target to make. > > > > > > * Do not assume the fundraising team plays a fair play. They > have a > > > > lot of > > > > > > weight and use it. > > > > > > * Do not assume that their first offer (in case of a blocking > > banner) > > > > is a > > > > > > balanced, reasonable and well thought one. > > > > > > * Do not expect them to know how much the impact is of something. > > > > > > * Do expect them to offer empty shells/boxes/etc and are not > > > impressed > > > > by > > > > > > those. > > > > > > * Say always no if they ask if a blocking banner or two banners > at > > > the > > > > > > same time is okay. It has a devastating effect on your results. > Yes > > > you > > > > > > can, some chapters did and that was taken into account seriously. > > > > > > * Always have the complete team involved in the communication, > and > > > even > > > > > > think of asking advisers (from outside WMF) for support and > > feedback > > > > on the > > > > > > proposals. Always have someone involved who has years of > experience > > > in > > > > this > > > > > > matter, otherwise you loose and the whole community looses. > > > > > > > > > > > > But I think the best lesson learned is: with every blocking > banner, > > > let > > > > > > the community publicly decide what should be chosen. > > > > > > > > > > > > Romaine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2015-08-30 14:00 GMT+02:00 Steinsplitter Wiki < > > > > steinsplitter-wiki(a)live.com > > > > > > >: > > > > > > > > > > > >> I 100% agree with rupert's thoughts. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Wiki(p|m)edia was and is mad be volunteers, therefore volunteer > > > first > > > > > >> should apply. Volunteers are contributing the content for > exactly > > > zero > > > > > >> dollars per hour. It is all because of free knowledge and other > > > > stuff, but > > > > > >> not about money. It looks like money is fore some people moor > > > > important > > > > > >> than free knowledge. It is frustrating... > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Regards, > > > > > >> Steinsplitter > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > From: rupert.thurner(a)gmail.com > > > > > >> > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 21:35:46 +0200 > > > > > >> > To: janbart(a)wikimedia.org; patricio.lorente(a)gmail.com; > > > > > >> me.lyzzy(a)gmail.com; ubifrieda(a)gmail.com; jmh649(a)gmail.com; > > > > > >> darekj(a)alk.edu.pl; denny.vrandecic(a)kit.edu; jwales(a)wikia.com; > > > > > >> stu(a)wikimedia.org > > > > > >> > CC: wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org; > > > > > >> wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > >> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves > > > > Monuments > > > > > >> in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > dear board, > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > allow me to directly ask you to stop these fundraising persons > > to > > > > spoil > > > > > >> > wiki loves monuments because of less than intelligent KPIs. > WMF > > > > cannot > > > > > >> and > > > > > >> > should not behave like an elephant in the porcelain shop. > there > > > is a > > > > > >> simple > > > > > >> > technical solution to the problem below, to have a combined > > banner > > > > for > > > > > >> WLM > > > > > >> > and donation. it is impossible that more money at stake as is > > > > covered by > > > > > >> > the reserves, isn't it? i am really lacking words here ... the > > > only > > > > > >> ones i > > > > > >> > could find would not be compliant with the friendly space > > policy. > > > > if we > > > > > >> as > > > > > >> > movement do not follow through the "volunteer first" rule than > > it > > > is > > > > > >> better > > > > > >> > to dissolve WMF, or split it in two parts, one holding the > > rights > > > > to the > > > > > >> > web URLs, i.e. right to banner, the other one employing all > the > > > > people > > > > > >> > doing some work. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > best, > > > > > >> > rupert > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Andrea Zanni < > > > > zanni.andrea84(a)gmail.com > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Hello everyone. > > > > > >> > > Sorry for the long mail but we wanted to explain the > situation > > > for > > > > > >> > > Wikimedia Italia. > > > > > >> > > The conversation is going on and it's better to clear some > > > > important > > > > > >> > > points. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > In the second week of August Wikimedia Italia has been > > contacted > > > > by > > > > > >> > > Kalliope Tsouroupidou and later by Jessica Robell, who > > explained > > > > that > > > > > >> the > > > > > >> > > Wikimedia Foundation was planning to have a fundraising > > campaign > > > > in > > > > > >> Italy > > > > > >> > > in September. > > > > > >> > > We have been surprised by that, since Wiki Loves Monuments > is > > > > > >> well-known to > > > > > >> > > run in September, and it has been like that for years. > > > > > >> > > Moreover, there has been a similar clash in 2014: we > > discussed > > > > for > > > > > >> several > > > > > >> > > days, and in the end we reached a compromise, and the FR > > banners > > > > went > > > > > >> live > > > > > >> > > just for the last days. > > > > > >> > > It was not perfect, but we had WLM banners for almost all > > > > September. > > > > > >> > > This year the clash is on the whole month of September. > Given > > > the > > > > > >> history, > > > > > >> > > and the very fact that Wikimedia Italia has planned WLM and > > > > written > > > > > >> so in > > > > > >> > > the FDC application, we feel that WMIT has not been > negligible > > > in > > > > > >> matters > > > > > >> > > of > > > > > >> > > communication. > > > > > >> > > We are not *happy* with the situation, > > > > > >> > > the very existence of the clash, the fact that all this > > appeared > > > > in > > > > > >> the > > > > > >> > > middle of August, while we were all on holiday and just few > > > weeks > > > > > >> before > > > > > >> > > the beginning of WLM. > > > > > >> > > We just decided not to pick up a fight, as we believe in > > > > constructive > > > > > >> > > conversation and negotiation. > > > > > >> > > The agreement we reached is very painful for WMIT and WLM: > > it's > > > > just > > > > > >> better > > > > > >> > > than not having the banners at all, or to have them for > just a > > > few > > > > > >> days in > > > > > >> > > the middle of September. > > > > > >> > > Conversations with the FR team has been firm, but polite: > this > > > > does > > > > > >> not > > > > > >> > > mean that we are happy about what is happening. > > > > > >> > > Moreover, we will have to discuss with FDC to renegotiate > > > expected > > > > > >> results > > > > > >> > > for WLM in 2015. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > Having the fundraising campaign in September in Italy has a > > > clear > > > > > >> negative > > > > > >> > > impact on Wiki Loves Monuments, the largest project of > > Wikimedia > > > > > >> Italia. > > > > > >> > > This will not only likely reduce the number of participants > > and > > > > > >> uploaded > > > > > >> > > pictures, but will also put us in a difficult position in > > front > > > > of our > > > > > >> > > sponsors and partners, including 200+ municipalities, 100+ > > > > cultural > > > > > >> > > institutions, and some major partners, like FIAF (the > > Federation > > > > of > > > > > >> Italian > > > > > >> > > photographers' associations), ICOM (the International > Council > > of > > > > > >> Museums), > > > > > >> > > the Toscana Foto Festival (a major photo festival), Touring > > Club > > > > > >> Italiano > > > > > >> > > (the largest Italian touristic association), and others. > WMIT > > > > spends > > > > > >> > > thousands of euros in WLM each year - not because we waste > > > money, > > > > but > > > > > >> > > because we have higher stakes. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > This year, we will have in the Italian Jury international > > > renowned > > > > > >> > > photographers like (prabably: yet to be confirmed) Steve > > > McCurry ( > > > > > >> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_McCurry) and Franco > > > Fontana ( > > > > > >> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Fontana). > > > > > >> > > This year, in June, we were received by several politicians > > from > > > > the > > > > > >> > > Italian Parliament for an official meeting regarding the law > > we > > > > are > > > > > >> > > fighting > > > > > >> > > as WMIT. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > Because of the specific challenges we face, WLM in Italy > goes > > > > beyond > > > > > >> being > > > > > >> > > a photographic competition and is also an opportunity to > > create > > > > > >> > > relationships and advocate for the freedom of taking > pictures > > of > > > > > >> monuments. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > Italy does not have "freedom of panorama". > > > > > >> > > Worst, Italy does not have freedom of panorama for any kind > of > > > > > >> monuments, > > > > > >> > > even if copyright has expired. > > > > > >> > > We need to ask for permission to make pictures of monuments. > > > For. > > > > > >> Every. > > > > > >> > > Monument. > > > > > >> > > We have to create lists of monuments to be photographed. > There > > > is > > > > no > > > > > >> > > official list of monuments in Italy. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > There is *extensive* documentation here: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Italian_cultural_heritage_on_the_Wikimedia_… > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > This is very important to know to put in perspective WLM > Italy > > > > stats: > > > > > >> > > http://stats.wikilovesmonuments.cl/italy. As an example, it > > is > > > > the > > > > > >> reason > > > > > >> > > why we have so many participants who contribute for few pics > > > > each. In > > > > > >> 2014 > > > > > >> > > alone, we had 1038 uploaders, but we were only 6th in terms > of > > > > number > > > > > >> of > > > > > >> > > photos. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > The global fundraising is essential to our movement. > > > > > >> > > It funds Wikipedia operations, software development, the > > > Wikimedia > > > > > >> > > Foundation, many chapters and affiliates, and, of course, > also > > > > Wiki > > > > > >> Loves > > > > > >> > > Monuments (even tough in Italy it is primarily funded from > > other > > > > > >> sources). > > > > > >> > > The global fundraising is meant to support the Wikimedia > > > movement: > > > > > >> but, for > > > > > >> > > this very reason, it is a pity to have it clashing to one of > > the > > > > very > > > > > >> > > activities it is meant to support. > > > > > >> > > Especially since we are not talking about a 2 hours > editathon > > > in a > > > > > >> small > > > > > >> > > library in the middle of nowhere, but about an international > > > > > >> competition > > > > > >> > > who ended up in the Guinnes World Records, bringing > thousands > > of > > > > > >> pictures > > > > > >> > > to the Wikimedia projects. > > > > > >> > > We understand that fundraising is not an easy job, > especially > > > > when it > > > > > >> is > > > > > >> > > done on a global level. Yet we feel obliged to use donors > > money > > > to > > > > > >> build > > > > > >> > > and deliver the best projects we can: firstly out of respect > > for > > > > all > > > > > >> the > > > > > >> > > people who decided to donate their time, their money or > their > > > > career > > > > > >> to the > > > > > >> > > movement; secondly because a badly executed projects could > > also > > > > have a > > > > > >> > > negative impact on the next fundraising campaigns. > > > > > >> > > We are all part of the same movement: the work of the WMF > > > > fundraising > > > > > >> team > > > > > >> > > is strictly linked to that of the community. We would like > to > > be > > > > > >> confident > > > > > >> > > that what is happening now won't happen for a third time, > and > > > > that in > > > > > >> the > > > > > >> > > future we will be able to communicate more effectively and > > work > > > > more > > > > > >> > > collaboratively. > > > > > >> > > We really are looking forward a more effective cooperation > > with > > > > WMF > > > > > >> and all > > > > > >> > > other Wikimedia Affiliates: collaboration is the very pillar > > of > > > > all > > > > > >> the > > > > > >> > > Wikimedia movement. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > We would like to thank all the people who supported us and > > gave > > > us > > > > > >> opinions > > > > > >> > > and advices on this mailing list and elsewhere. > > > > > >> > > We are very proud to be part of such a great community, and > we > > > > would > > > > > >> like > > > > > >> > > to see it become wider and bigger. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > Andrea Zanni > > > > > >> > > for the board of Wikimedia Italia > > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > >> > > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > >> > > Unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > > > >> , > > > > > >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > >> > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > >> > Unsubscribe: > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > >> < > > > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@lists.w… > > > > > > > > > > >> Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > > > , > > > > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > > > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >

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Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
by Andrea Zanni 30 Aug '15

30 Aug '15

Hello everybody. I'm happy to announce that the Wikimedia Foundation has decided not to run the Fundraising banner in Italy during September. In the last week, the Fundraising Team and Wikimedia Italia's board worked hard together to find a common solution. In these very last days, we continued a very honest and direct conversation. I just received the news, and I'm glad to share it with you all. I personally think that the Fundraising Team made a brave move (as they will not likely meet the fundraising goals), and would love to see it welcomed with the respect it deserves. Best regards Andrea On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Steinsplitter Wiki < steinsplitter-wiki(a)live.com> wrote: > Thank you Romaine for setting up the RFC on meta [1]! > > So we can see what the community thinks about this. > > [1] > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banner_or_… > > > Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2015 19:04:41 +0200 > > From: romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com > > To: wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org; > wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments > in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising > > > > Hi all, > > > > Having spoken with some people, I have come to the conclusion that it is > > time to ask the Wikimedia community what they think about this > situation. I > > have especially seen both parties, the Wiki Loves Monuments organising > > teams who like to have a banner for Wiki Loves Monuments in September, > and > > the WMF Fundraising team who likes to have a fundraising banner in > > September. Then the question remains: what has more value for the > Wikimedia > > movement? > > > > To find out what the Wikimedia community thinks about this situation, I > > have set up this Request for Comment: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Fundraising_banner_or_… > > > > Romaine > > > > 2015-08-30 15:35 GMT+02:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki(a)gmail.com>: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > New update: > > > > > > The Italian team had some calls with the fundraising team and it > resulted > > > in: > > > * Wiki Loves Monuments gets the whole 4th week of September. So we will > > > have the WLM banner alone the first and the last week. > > > * WLM IT is discussing with the community a message in the Main Page of > > > Wikipedia > > > * WMF will try to put a link to WLM in the banner > > > * WMF will put a link to WLM in the Thank You letter for donors. > > > * WMF is helping WLM Italy with a blogpost in the blog, and social > media > > > fire > > > > > > They made clear this won't happen again. > > > > > > To me, the only improvements is their promise it won't happen again, > what > > > we certainly keep them having their promise in future, and that the > amount > > > of time the Wiki Loves Monuments banner is shown will be 50% of the > time. > > > > > > The rest of the outcomes is lousy and they sold us empty boxes. Wiki > Loves > > > Monuments depends for about 99% on a CentralNotice banner. Most > visitors to > > > Wikipedia do not visit the main page of a wiki. I do not believe a > small > > > link to WLM in a large fundraising banner would help or is seen. I do > not > > > believe that a link in the Thank You letter for donors would work. A > > > blogpost will be written anyway, as Wiki Loves Monuments is the largest > > > project of the Wikimedia movement, but still it would not reach to the > core > > > people Wiki Loves Monuments is aiming at. And a social media fire, I > have > > > no believe in it that WMF would have any control in such and the core > > > infrastructure is not under control by WMF. > > > > > > And still no explanation why it is not possible to move the fundraising > > > banner to a month later... > > > > > > I can only conclude that we have been put off, in Dutch: afgescheept > > > worden (literally: being shipped of). > > > > > > At such having a blocking banner is sad news. A competition is large > > > ruined by it. > > > > > > What I consider the most demotivating is the play the fundraising team > of > > > WMF has played. I certainly do not consider it fair play. Too many > empty > > > promises, dividing the community to get less resistance, no fair > > > negotiations, usage of the inexperience of volunteers, and more. > > > > > > And even after explaining the community perspective many times by > multiple > > > people, I still have the impression some people in WMF still do not > really > > > get it. > > > > > > I had the occasion in the past weeks that I spoke with people from WMF > who > > > are working for the foundation for some years, and I had to explain > what > > > Wiki Loves Monuments is. (And that was not the first time.) It is the > > > largest project of the movement, recognised as largest photo contest > in the > > > world, and some WMF people do not know or understand. I was so > friendly to > > > explain it of course, but it gave mixed feelings. > > > > > > And even after explaining the community perspective many times by > multiple > > > people, they do not really get it. > > > > > > Lessons to be learned: > > > * Do not assume that the fundraising team takes the best position for > the > > > movement, they have a target to make. > > > * Do not assume the fundraising team plays a fair play. They have a > lot of > > > weight and use it. > > > * Do not assume that their first offer (in case of a blocking banner) > is a > > > balanced, reasonable and well thought one. > > > * Do not expect them to know how much the impact is of something. > > > * Do expect them to offer empty shells/boxes/etc and are not impressed > by > > > those. > > > * Say always no if they ask if a blocking banner or two banners at the > > > same time is okay. It has a devastating effect on your results. Yes you > > > can, some chapters did and that was taken into account seriously. > > > * Always have the complete team involved in the communication, and even > > > think of asking advisers (from outside WMF) for support and feedback > on the > > > proposals. Always have someone involved who has years of experience in > this > > > matter, otherwise you loose and the whole community looses. > > > > > > But I think the best lesson learned is: with every blocking banner, let > > > the community publicly decide what should be chosen. > > > > > > Romaine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2015-08-30 14:00 GMT+02:00 Steinsplitter Wiki < > steinsplitter-wiki(a)live.com > > > >: > > > > > >> I 100% agree with rupert's thoughts. > > >> > > >> Wiki(p|m)edia was and is mad be volunteers, therefore volunteer first > > >> should apply. Volunteers are contributing the content for exactly zero > > >> dollars per hour. It is all because of free knowledge and other > stuff, but > > >> not about money. It looks like money is fore some people moor > important > > >> than free knowledge. It is frustrating... > > >> > > >> Regards, > > >> Steinsplitter > > >> > > >> > From: rupert.thurner(a)gmail.com > > >> > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 21:35:46 +0200 > > >> > To: janbart(a)wikimedia.org; patricio.lorente(a)gmail.com; > > >> me.lyzzy(a)gmail.com; ubifrieda(a)gmail.com; jmh649(a)gmail.com; > > >> darekj(a)alk.edu.pl; denny.vrandecic(a)kit.edu; jwales(a)wikia.com; > > >> stu(a)wikimedia.org > > >> > CC: wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org; > > >> wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > >> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves > Monuments > > >> in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising > > >> > > > >> > dear board, > > >> > > > >> > allow me to directly ask you to stop these fundraising persons to > spoil > > >> > wiki loves monuments because of less than intelligent KPIs. WMF > cannot > > >> and > > >> > should not behave like an elephant in the porcelain shop. there is a > > >> simple > > >> > technical solution to the problem below, to have a combined banner > for > > >> WLM > > >> > and donation. it is impossible that more money at stake as is > covered by > > >> > the reserves, isn't it? i am really lacking words here ... the only > > >> ones i > > >> > could find would not be compliant with the friendly space policy. > if we > > >> as > > >> > movement do not follow through the "volunteer first" rule than it is > > >> better > > >> > to dissolve WMF, or split it in two parts, one holding the rights > to the > > >> > web URLs, i.e. right to banner, the other one employing all the > people > > >> > doing some work. > > >> > > > >> > best, > > >> > rupert > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Andrea Zanni < > zanni.andrea84(a)gmail.com > > >> > > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Hello everyone. > > >> > > Sorry for the long mail but we wanted to explain the situation for > > >> > > Wikimedia Italia. > > >> > > The conversation is going on and it's better to clear some > important > > >> > > points. > > >> > > > > >> > > In the second week of August Wikimedia Italia has been contacted > by > > >> > > Kalliope Tsouroupidou and later by Jessica Robell, who explained > that > > >> the > > >> > > Wikimedia Foundation was planning to have a fundraising campaign > in > > >> Italy > > >> > > in September. > > >> > > We have been surprised by that, since Wiki Loves Monuments is > > >> well-known to > > >> > > run in September, and it has been like that for years. > > >> > > Moreover, there has been a similar clash in 2014: we discussed > for > > >> several > > >> > > days, and in the end we reached a compromise, and the FR banners > went > > >> live > > >> > > just for the last days. > > >> > > It was not perfect, but we had WLM banners for almost all > September. > > >> > > This year the clash is on the whole month of September. Given the > > >> history, > > >> > > and the very fact that Wikimedia Italia has planned WLM and > written > > >> so in > > >> > > the FDC application, we feel that WMIT has not been negligible in > > >> matters > > >> > > of > > >> > > communication. > > >> > > We are not *happy* with the situation, > > >> > > the very existence of the clash, the fact that all this appeared > in > > >> the > > >> > > middle of August, while we were all on holiday and just few weeks > > >> before > > >> > > the beginning of WLM. > > >> > > We just decided not to pick up a fight, as we believe in > constructive > > >> > > conversation and negotiation. > > >> > > The agreement we reached is very painful for WMIT and WLM: it's > just > > >> better > > >> > > than not having the banners at all, or to have them for just a few > > >> days in > > >> > > the middle of September. > > >> > > Conversations with the FR team has been firm, but polite: this > does > > >> not > > >> > > mean that we are happy about what is happening. > > >> > > Moreover, we will have to discuss with FDC to renegotiate expected > > >> results > > >> > > for WLM in 2015. > > >> > > > > >> > > Having the fundraising campaign in September in Italy has a clear > > >> negative > > >> > > impact on Wiki Loves Monuments, the largest project of Wikimedia > > >> Italia. > > >> > > This will not only likely reduce the number of participants and > > >> uploaded > > >> > > pictures, but will also put us in a difficult position in front > of our > > >> > > sponsors and partners, including 200+ municipalities, 100+ > cultural > > >> > > institutions, and some major partners, like FIAF (the Federation > of > > >> Italian > > >> > > photographers' associations), ICOM (the International Council of > > >> Museums), > > >> > > the Toscana Foto Festival (a major photo festival), Touring Club > > >> Italiano > > >> > > (the largest Italian touristic association), and others. WMIT > spends > > >> > > thousands of euros in WLM each year - not because we waste money, > but > > >> > > because we have higher stakes. > > >> > > > > >> > > This year, we will have in the Italian Jury international renowned > > >> > > photographers like (prabably: yet to be confirmed) Steve McCurry ( > > >> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_McCurry) and Franco Fontana ( > > >> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Fontana). > > >> > > This year, in June, we were received by several politicians from > the > > >> > > Italian Parliament for an official meeting regarding the law we > are > > >> > > fighting > > >> > > as WMIT. > > >> > > > > >> > > Because of the specific challenges we face, WLM in Italy goes > beyond > > >> being > > >> > > a photographic competition and is also an opportunity to create > > >> > > relationships and advocate for the freedom of taking pictures of > > >> monuments. > > >> > > > > >> > > Italy does not have "freedom of panorama". > > >> > > Worst, Italy does not have freedom of panorama for any kind of > > >> monuments, > > >> > > even if copyright has expired. > > >> > > We need to ask for permission to make pictures of monuments. For. > > >> Every. > > >> > > Monument. > > >> > > We have to create lists of monuments to be photographed. There is > no > > >> > > official list of monuments in Italy. > > >> > > > > >> > > There is *extensive* documentation here: > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Italian_cultural_heritage_on_the_Wikimedia_… > > >> > > > > >> > > This is very important to know to put in perspective WLM Italy > stats: > > >> > > http://stats.wikilovesmonuments.cl/italy. As an example, it is > the > > >> reason > > >> > > why we have so many participants who contribute for few pics > each. In > > >> 2014 > > >> > > alone, we had 1038 uploaders, but we were only 6th in terms of > number > > >> of > > >> > > photos. > > >> > > > > >> > > The global fundraising is essential to our movement. > > >> > > It funds Wikipedia operations, software development, the Wikimedia > > >> > > Foundation, many chapters and affiliates, and, of course, also > Wiki > > >> Loves > > >> > > Monuments (even tough in Italy it is primarily funded from other > > >> sources). > > >> > > The global fundraising is meant to support the Wikimedia movement: > > >> but, for > > >> > > this very reason, it is a pity to have it clashing to one of the > very > > >> > > activities it is meant to support. > > >> > > Especially since we are not talking about a 2 hours editathon in a > > >> small > > >> > > library in the middle of nowhere, but about an international > > >> competition > > >> > > who ended up in the Guinnes World Records, bringing thousands of > > >> pictures > > >> > > to the Wikimedia projects. > > >> > > We understand that fundraising is not an easy job, especially > when it > > >> is > > >> > > done on a global level. Yet we feel obliged to use donors money to > > >> build > > >> > > and deliver the best projects we can: firstly out of respect for > all > > >> the > > >> > > people who decided to donate their time, their money or their > career > > >> to the > > >> > > movement; secondly because a badly executed projects could also > have a > > >> > > negative impact on the next fundraising campaigns. > > >> > > We are all part of the same movement: the work of the WMF > fundraising > > >> team > > >> > > is strictly linked to that of the community. We would like to be > > >> confident > > >> > > that what is happening now won't happen for a third time, and > that in > > >> the > > >> > > future we will be able to communicate more effectively and work > more > > >> > > collaboratively. > > >> > > We really are looking forward a more effective cooperation with > WMF > > >> and all > > >> > > other Wikimedia Affiliates: collaboration is the very pillar of > all > > >> the > > >> > > Wikimedia movement. > > >> > > > > >> > > We would like to thank all the people who supported us and gave us > > >> opinions > > >> > > and advices on this mailing list and elsewhere. > > >> > > We are very proud to be part of such a great community, and we > would > > >> like > > >> > > to see it become wider and bigger. > > >> > > > > >> > > Andrea Zanni > > >> > > for the board of Wikimedia Italia > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > >> > > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > >> > > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > >> , > > >> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > >> > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > >> > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > >> > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > >> Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > >> < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@lists.w… > > > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > , > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >

2 1

Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
by Romaine Wiki 30 Aug '15

30 Aug '15

Hi all, New update: The Italian team had some calls with the fundraising team and it resulted in: * Wiki Loves Monuments gets the whole 4th week of September. So we will have the WLM banner alone the first and the last week. * WLM IT is discussing with the community a message in the Main Page of Wikipedia * WMF will try to put a link to WLM in the banner * WMF will put a link to WLM in the Thank You letter for donors. * WMF is helping WLM Italy with a blogpost in the blog, and social media fire They made clear this won't happen again. To me, the only improvements is their promise it won't happen again, what we certainly keep them having their promise in future, and that the amount of time the Wiki Loves Monuments banner is shown will be 50% of the time. The rest of the outcomes is lousy and they sold us empty boxes. Wiki Loves Monuments depends for about 99% on a CentralNotice banner. Most visitors to Wikipedia do not visit the main page of a wiki. I do not believe a small link to WLM in a large fundraising banner would help or is seen. I do not believe that a link in the Thank You letter for donors would work. A blogpost will be written anyway, as Wiki Loves Monuments is the largest project of the Wikimedia movement, but still it would not reach to the core people Wiki Loves Monuments is aiming at. And a social media fire, I have no believe in it that WMF would have any control in such and the core infrastructure is not under control by WMF. And still no explanation why it is not possible to move the fundraising banner to a month later... I can only conclude that we have been put off, in Dutch: afgescheept worden (literally: being shipped of). At such having a blocking banner is sad news. A competition is large ruined by it. What I consider the most demotivating is the play the fundraising team of WMF has played. I certainly do not consider it fair play. Too many empty promises, dividing the community to get less resistance, no fair negotiations, usage of the inexperience of volunteers, and more. And even after explaining the community perspective many times by multiple people, I still have the impression some people in WMF still do not really get it. I had the occasion in the past weeks that I spoke with people from WMF who are working for the foundation for some years, and I had to explain what Wiki Loves Monuments is. (And that was not the first time.) It is the largest project of the movement, recognised as largest photo contest in the world, and some WMF people do not know or understand. I was so friendly to explain it of course, but it gave mixed feelings. And even after explaining the community perspective many times by multiple people, they do not really get it. Lessons to be learned: * Do not assume that the fundraising team takes the best position for the movement, they have a target to make. * Do not assume the fundraising team plays a fair play. They have a lot of weight and use it. * Do not assume that their first offer (in case of a blocking banner) is a balanced, reasonable and well thought one. * Do not expect them to know how much the impact is of something. * Do expect them to offer empty shells/boxes/etc and are not impressed by those. * Say always no if they ask if a blocking banner or two banners at the same time is okay. It has a devastating effect on your results. Yes you can, some chapters did and that was taken into account seriously. * Always have the complete team involved in the communication, and even think of asking advisers (from outside WMF) for support and feedback on the proposals. Always have someone involved who has years of experience in this matter, otherwise you loose and the whole community looses. But I think the best lesson learned is: with every blocking banner, let the community publicly decide what should be chosen. Romaine 2015-08-30 14:00 GMT+02:00 Steinsplitter Wiki <steinsplitter-wiki(a)live.com>: > I 100% agree with rupert's thoughts. > > Wiki(p|m)edia was and is mad be volunteers, therefore volunteer first > should apply. Volunteers are contributing the content for exactly zero > dollars per hour. It is all because of free knowledge and other stuff, but > not about money. It looks like money is fore some people moor important > than free knowledge. It is frustrating... > > Regards, > Steinsplitter > > > From: rupert.thurner(a)gmail.com > > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2015 21:35:46 +0200 > > To: janbart(a)wikimedia.org; patricio.lorente(a)gmail.com; > me.lyzzy(a)gmail.com; ubifrieda(a)gmail.com; jmh649(a)gmail.com; > darekj(a)alk.edu.pl; denny.vrandecic(a)kit.edu; jwales(a)wikia.com; > stu(a)wikimedia.org > > CC: wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org; > wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki Loves Monuments] Wiki Loves Monuments > in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising > > > > dear board, > > > > allow me to directly ask you to stop these fundraising persons to spoil > > wiki loves monuments because of less than intelligent KPIs. WMF cannot > and > > should not behave like an elephant in the porcelain shop. there is a > simple > > technical solution to the problem below, to have a combined banner for > WLM > > and donation. it is impossible that more money at stake as is covered by > > the reserves, isn't it? i am really lacking words here ... the only ones > i > > could find would not be compliant with the friendly space policy. if we > as > > movement do not follow through the "volunteer first" rule than it is > better > > to dissolve WMF, or split it in two parts, one holding the rights to the > > web URLs, i.e. right to banner, the other one employing all the people > > doing some work. > > > > best, > > rupert > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Andrea Zanni <zanni.andrea84(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hello everyone. > > > Sorry for the long mail but we wanted to explain the situation for > > > Wikimedia Italia. > > > The conversation is going on and it's better to clear some important > > > points. > > > > > > In the second week of August Wikimedia Italia has been contacted by > > > Kalliope Tsouroupidou and later by Jessica Robell, who explained that > the > > > Wikimedia Foundation was planning to have a fundraising campaign in > Italy > > > in September. > > > We have been surprised by that, since Wiki Loves Monuments is > well-known to > > > run in September, and it has been like that for years. > > > Moreover, there has been a similar clash in 2014: we discussed for > several > > > days, and in the end we reached a compromise, and the FR banners went > live > > > just for the last days. > > > It was not perfect, but we had WLM banners for almost all September. > > > This year the clash is on the whole month of September. Given the > history, > > > and the very fact that Wikimedia Italia has planned WLM and written so > in > > > the FDC application, we feel that WMIT has not been negligible in > matters > > > of > > > communication. > > > We are not *happy* with the situation, > > > the very existence of the clash, the fact that all this appeared in the > > > middle of August, while we were all on holiday and just few weeks > before > > > the beginning of WLM. > > > We just decided not to pick up a fight, as we believe in constructive > > > conversation and negotiation. > > > The agreement we reached is very painful for WMIT and WLM: it's just > better > > > than not having the banners at all, or to have them for just a few > days in > > > the middle of September. > > > Conversations with the FR team has been firm, but polite: this does not > > > mean that we are happy about what is happening. > > > Moreover, we will have to discuss with FDC to renegotiate expected > results > > > for WLM in 2015. > > > > > > Having the fundraising campaign in September in Italy has a clear > negative > > > impact on Wiki Loves Monuments, the largest project of Wikimedia > Italia. > > > This will not only likely reduce the number of participants and > uploaded > > > pictures, but will also put us in a difficult position in front of our > > > sponsors and partners, including 200+ municipalities, 100+ cultural > > > institutions, and some major partners, like FIAF (the Federation of > Italian > > > photographers' associations), ICOM (the International Council of > Museums), > > > the Toscana Foto Festival (a major photo festival), Touring Club > Italiano > > > (the largest Italian touristic association), and others. WMIT spends > > > thousands of euros in WLM each year - not because we waste money, but > > > because we have higher stakes. > > > > > > This year, we will have in the Italian Jury international renowned > > > photographers like (prabably: yet to be confirmed) Steve McCurry ( > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_McCurry) and Franco Fontana ( > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Fontana). > > > This year, in June, we were received by several politicians from the > > > Italian Parliament for an official meeting regarding the law we are > > > fighting > > > as WMIT. > > > > > > Because of the specific challenges we face, WLM in Italy goes beyond > being > > > a photographic competition and is also an opportunity to create > > > relationships and advocate for the freedom of taking pictures of > monuments. > > > > > > Italy does not have "freedom of panorama". > > > Worst, Italy does not have freedom of panorama for any kind of > monuments, > > > even if copyright has expired. > > > We need to ask for permission to make pictures of monuments. For. > Every. > > > Monument. > > > We have to create lists of monuments to be photographed. There is no > > > official list of monuments in Italy. > > > > > > There is *extensive* documentation here: > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Italian_cultural_heritage_on_the_Wikimedia_… > > > > > > This is very important to know to put in perspective WLM Italy stats: > > > http://stats.wikilovesmonuments.cl/italy. As an example, it is the > reason > > > why we have so many participants who contribute for few pics each. In > 2014 > > > alone, we had 1038 uploaders, but we were only 6th in terms of number > of > > > photos. > > > > > > The global fundraising is essential to our movement. > > > It funds Wikipedia operations, software development, the Wikimedia > > > Foundation, many chapters and affiliates, and, of course, also Wiki > Loves > > > Monuments (even tough in Italy it is primarily funded from other > sources). > > > The global fundraising is meant to support the Wikimedia movement: > but, for > > > this very reason, it is a pity to have it clashing to one of the very > > > activities it is meant to support. > > > Especially since we are not talking about a 2 hours editathon in a > small > > > library in the middle of nowhere, but about an international > competition > > > who ended up in the Guinnes World Records, bringing thousands of > pictures > > > to the Wikimedia projects. > > > We understand that fundraising is not an easy job, especially when it > is > > > done on a global level. Yet we feel obliged to use donors money to > build > > > and deliver the best projects we can: firstly out of respect for all > the > > > people who decided to donate their time, their money or their career > to the > > > movement; secondly because a badly executed projects could also have a > > > negative impact on the next fundraising campaigns. > > > We are all part of the same movement: the work of the WMF fundraising > team > > > is strictly linked to that of the community. We would like to be > confident > > > that what is happening now won't happen for a third time, and that in > the > > > future we will be able to communicate more effectively and work more > > > collaboratively. > > > We really are looking forward a more effective cooperation with WMF > and all > > > other Wikimedia Affiliates: collaboration is the very pillar of all the > > > Wikimedia movement. > > > > > > We would like to thank all the people who supported us and gave us > opinions > > > and advices on this mailing list and elsewhere. > > > We are very proud to be part of such a great community, and we would > like > > > to see it become wider and bigger. > > > > > > Andrea Zanni > > > for the board of Wikimedia Italia > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >

2 2

Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] [Wikimedia-l] Wiki Loves Monuments in Italy largely blocked by WMF fundraising
by Andrea Zanni 29 Aug '15

29 Aug '15

Hello everyone. Sorry for the long mail but we wanted to explain the situation for Wikimedia Italia. The conversation is going on and it's better to clear some important points. In the second week of August Wikimedia Italia has been contacted by Kalliope Tsouroupidou and later by Jessica Robell, who explained that the Wikimedia Foundation was planning to have a fundraising campaign in Italy in September. We have been surprised by that, since Wiki Loves Monuments is well-known to run in September, and it has been like that for years. Moreover, there has been a similar clash in 2014: we discussed for several days, and in the end we reached a compromise, and the FR banners went live just for the last days. It was not perfect, but we had WLM banners for almost all September. This year the clash is on the whole month of September. Given the history, and the very fact that Wikimedia Italia has planned WLM and written so in the FDC application, we feel that WMIT has not been negligible in matters of communication. We are not *happy* with the situation, the very existence of the clash, the fact that all this appeared in the middle of August, while we were all on holiday and just few weeks before the beginning of WLM. We just decided not to pick up a fight, as we believe in constructive conversation and negotiation. The agreement we reached is very painful for WMIT and WLM: it's just better than not having the banners at all, or to have them for just a few days in the middle of September. Conversations with the FR team has been firm, but polite: this does not mean that we are happy about what is happening. Moreover, we will have to discuss with FDC to renegotiate expected results for WLM in 2015. Having the fundraising campaign in September in Italy has a clear negative impact on Wiki Loves Monuments, the largest project of Wikimedia Italia. This will not only likely reduce the number of participants and uploaded pictures, but will also put us in a difficult position in front of our sponsors and partners, including 200+ municipalities, 100+ cultural institutions, and some major partners, like FIAF (the Federation of Italian photographers' associations), ICOM (the International Council of Museums), the Toscana Foto Festival (a major photo festival), Touring Club Italiano (the largest Italian touristic association), and others. WMIT spends thousands of euros in WLM each year - not because we waste money, but because we have higher stakes. This year, we will have in the Italian Jury international renowned photographers like (prabably: yet to be confirmed) Steve McCurry ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_McCurry) and Franco Fontana ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Fontana). This year, in June, we were received by several politicians from the Italian Parliament for an official meeting regarding the law we are fighting as WMIT. Because of the specific challenges we face, WLM in Italy goes beyond being a photographic competition and is also an opportunity to create relationships and advocate for the freedom of taking pictures of monuments. Italy does not have "freedom of panorama". Worst, Italy does not have freedom of panorama for any kind of monuments, even if copyright has expired. We need to ask for permission to make pictures of monuments. For. Every. Monument. We have to create lists of monuments to be photographed. There is no official list of monuments in Italy. There is *extensive* documentation here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Italian_cultural_heritage_on_the_Wikimedia_… This is very important to know to put in perspective WLM Italy stats: http://stats.wikilovesmonuments.cl/italy. As an example, it is the reason why we have so many participants who contribute for few pics each. In 2014 alone, we had 1038 uploaders, but we were only 6th in terms of number of photos. The global fundraising is essential to our movement. It funds Wikipedia operations, software development, the Wikimedia Foundation, many chapters and affiliates, and, of course, also Wiki Loves Monuments (even tough in Italy it is primarily funded from other sources). The global fundraising is meant to support the Wikimedia movement: but, for this very reason, it is a pity to have it clashing to one of the very activities it is meant to support. Especially since we are not talking about a 2 hours editathon in a small library in the middle of nowhere, but about an international competition who ended up in the Guinnes World Records, bringing thousands of pictures to the Wikimedia projects. We understand that fundraising is not an easy job, especially when it is done on a global level. Yet we feel obliged to use donors money to build and deliver the best projects we can: firstly out of respect for all the people who decided to donate their time, their money or their career to the movement; secondly because a badly executed projects could also have a negative impact on the next fundraising campaigns. We are all part of the same movement: the work of the WMF fundraising team is strictly linked to that of the community. We would like to be confident that what is happening now won't happen for a third time, and that in the future we will be able to communicate more effectively and work more collaboratively. We really are looking forward a more effective cooperation with WMF and all other Wikimedia Affiliates: collaboration is the very pillar of all the Wikimedia movement. We would like to thank all the people who supported us and gave us opinions and advices on this mailing list and elsewhere. We are very proud to be part of such a great community, and we would like to see it become wider and bigger. Andrea Zanni for the board of Wikimedia Italia

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WLM map tool
by Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada 29 Aug '15

29 Aug '15

Hello; The WLM map is also ready.[1] Is the erfgoed database being updated regularly? Regards [1] https://tools.wmflabs.org/wlm-maps/

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WLM statistics tool
by Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada 25 Aug '15

25 Aug '15

Hello; The WLM stats tool is ready for 2015.[1] What are the start and end dates this year? I see that Ireland has some files. Regards [1] https://tools.wmflabs.org/wlm-stats/

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WikiLovesMonuments August 2015