Hi all -
As was announced several months ago, I am now one of the moderators of this list.
Some time ago, there was a discussion on this list about behavioral standards for this list. There was widespread agreement in the initial thread that it's important for this list to remain a safe space for discussion, even if that means enforcing a behavioral standard higher than is the norm on other Wikimedia mailing lists. I think that given the nature of this list, it would be especially, extraordinarily, unusually counterproductive to allow a consistently combative or consistently uncivil environment to take root here. Given the previous thread about it, and some off-list conversations I've recently had, I know I am far from the only list member to feel that way.
Given this, I'm going to change how the moderation of this list is handled a little bit moving forward. Previously, there has been no hands-on moderation of this list. From now on, there will potentially be some. It won't be draconian - and really, I hope it'll never be used at all - but I think it's important to guarantee that the atmosphere of this list remains friendly, and I wanted to announce how I will be approaching it.
If, after an initial direct request to change their behavior, anyone behaves in a way that is significantly disruptive to this list, a way that is consistently uncivil, or a way that consistently makes other list members feel uncomfortable participating on this list, I will be putting them on +moderate, which means that all of their emails will be held until I approve them - and I'll only be approving emails that don't do those things. I obviously don't mean that dissenting opinions aren't okay; I think they should always be welcomed and moderation will not be done on the basis of the opinion someone expresses. But, I do think that all opinions can be expressed in a civil way that doesn't make other list members feel uncomfortable.
We could create an enumerated list of rules trying to cover every scenario that could come up, but I don't think that would be necessary or productive. I think that most people realize when they stop over a line - and if they don't before someone else speaks up about it, they certainly should afterwards. I normally watch most traffic on this list, but I don't always (this week is finals for me :).) If you have a complaint about someone's behavior that you think needs moderator attention that has been missed, please send me a direct email. If someone else emails you asking to change your behavior or expressing discomfort in your posting style, please take a minute to step back and see if there could be something to their request. It's understandable that sometimes tensions will run high on gendergap issues and no one will be moderated unless their posts are consistently problematic even after being approached about it.
Feedback on this is welcome, although the basic idea (that members whose presence is disruptive to this list being a safe space) is unlikely to totally change.
Thanks, Kevin Gorman (user:Kevin Gorman, formerly user:kgorman-ucb)
On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all -
Given this, I'm going to change how the moderation of this list is handled a little bit moving forward. Previously, there has been no hands-on moderation of this list. From now on, there will potentially be some. It won't be draconian - and really, I hope it'll never be used at all - but I think it's important to guarantee that the atmosphere of this list remains friendly, and I wanted to announce how I will be approaching it.
This really makes this place safe. Thank you very much. We've done an excellent job resolving the leadership gendergap on WMF with male +1, female +0.
Honestly though, I can tell you that while I am glad for a moderator, having a male come in and tell me they will be making this a safe place, given the historical problems of men making this feel UNSAFE on this list and the increase in male participation, this makes me uncomfortable and more like this will be an even more unsafe space. :( The first thing you, as a male who knows there are issues with women who feel unsafe participating in this list because of those problems, is make a declaration of firm male leadership and less tolerance of this type of behavior. It feels like a major disconnect, where the end result is women will feel MORE silenced lest they offend you.
On 6 May 2012 17:16, Laura Hale laura@fanhistory.com wrote:
On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all -
Given this, I'm going to change how the moderation of this list is handled a little bit moving forward. Previously, there has been no hands-on moderation of this list. From now on, there will potentially be some. It won't be draconian - and really, I hope it'll never be used at all - but I think it's important to guarantee that the atmosphere of this list remains friendly, and I wanted to announce how I will be approaching it.
This really makes this place safe. Thank you very much. We've done an excellent job resolving the leadership gendergap on WMF with male +1, female +0.
Honestly though, I can tell you that while I am glad for a moderator, having a male come in and tell me they will be making this a safe place, given the historical problems of men making this feel UNSAFE on this list and the increase in male participation, this makes me uncomfortable and more like this will be an even more unsafe space. :( The first thing you, as a male who knows there are issues with women who feel unsafe participating in this list because of those problems, is make a declaration of firm male leadership and less tolerance of this type of behavior. It feels like a major disconnect, where the end result is women will feel MORE silenced lest they offend you.
--
Wow, Laura. That's possibly the meanest and most sexist post I've seen on this list in a very long time. Kevin isn't the only moderator; Sarah Stierch and Sue Gardner are also mods.
I do admit that I've not seen any posts recently that I thought should have been moderated. Kevin, are you trying to address a specific concern that was identified to you and the other moderators? Have you discussed your proposed actions with the other moderators, so that you are all acting in concert?
Risker/Anne
@Risker: Sorry for not making it more clear in my initial post. Although Sue is a moderator, she chooses not to be active in most moderation decisions. Sarah and I talked about this, and she looked over, edited, (and agreed with) my initial email in this thread. I signed it personally instead of both of us doing so in part because, as Kaldari mentioned, she's frequently been the focus of situations where moderation might be a good idea, and she doesn't want to use a modhat against behavior directed towards her. Since a lot of the issues in the past have been directed towards her, she's asked me to be the primary handler of active moderation stuff for now. (If there ends up being a situation where problematic behavior is targeted towards me instead of her, I'll step back and ask her to handle it.)
:There's no recent incident that has made me go 'oh, hey, I want to +moderate this person right this minute' - but there has been some recent stuff that has reminded us that this is something we've talked about before, and that it would be good to state publicly before there is a situation where we want to actually +moderate anyone. No one will be +moderated without getting an email from Sarah or myself first asking them to shift their behavior, and even then, we'll be moderating on a post by post basis and not completely removing anyone from the list. I'm hopeful that we won't actually need to moderate anyone ever, but wanted to publicly state that we will be doing so if we feel it's needed in the future before it came up.
Re: the idea of additional moderators - although I haven't talked about it explicitly with Sue and Sarah, I like the idea, and I'm pretty sure they would too. If anyone would like to volunteer, please drop an email to Sarah or me offlist.
---- Kevin Gorman
I guess the better way to solve this is to place someone "from the other side" of the fight also on moderation. Why not Laura herself? _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 6 May 2012 20:46, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
@Risker: Sorry for not making it more clear in my initial post. Although Sue is a moderator, she chooses not to be active in most moderation decisions. Sarah and I talked about this, and she looked over, edited, (and agreed with) my initial email in this thread. I signed it personally instead of both of us doing so in part because, as Kaldari mentioned, she's frequently been the focus of situations where moderation might be a good idea, and she doesn't want to use a modhat against behavior directed towards her. Since a lot of the issues in the past have been directed towards her, she's asked me to be the primary handler of active moderation stuff for now. (If there ends up being a situation where problematic behavior is targeted towards me instead of her, I'll step back and ask her to handle it.)
:There's no recent incident that has made me go 'oh, hey, I want to +moderate this person right this minute' - but there has been some recent stuff that has reminded us that this is something we've talked about before, and that it would be good to state publicly before there is a situation where we want to actually +moderate anyone. No one will be +moderated without getting an email from Sarah or myself first asking them to shift their behavior, and even then, we'll be moderating on a post by post basis and not completely removing anyone from the list. I'm hopeful that we won't actually need to moderate anyone ever, but wanted to publicly state that we will be doing so if we feel it's needed in the future before it came up.
Re: the idea of additional moderators - although I haven't talked about it explicitly with Sue and Sarah, I like the idea, and I'm pretty sure they would too. If anyone would like to volunteer, please drop an email to Sarah or me offlist.
Kevin Gorman
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I don't care who is moderating, but it would be nice to have more civility on this list. When I resigned as moderator, I invited several people to take my place (all women). They all declined citing the contentious nature of the list, except for SlimVirgin. SlimVirgin, unfortunately, was not able to moderate for very long due to health issues. That leaves us with Sue, SarahS, and Kevin. Sue is far too busy to actually moderate the list and SarahS often has a COI in moderating since she is frequently the target of attacks. So that leaves Kevin. Now that SlimVirgin has rejoined the list, perhaps she would be interested in helping to moderate again?
Ryan Kaldari
On 5/6/12 2:16 PM, Laura Hale wrote:
On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Kevin Gorman <kgorman@gmail.com mailto:kgorman@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all - Given this, I'm going to change how the moderation of this list is handled a little bit moving forward. Previously, there has been no hands-on moderation of this list. From now on, there will potentially be some. It won't be draconian - and really, I hope it'll never be used at all - but I think it's important to guarantee that the atmosphere of this list remains friendly, and I wanted to announce how I will be approaching it.
This really makes this place safe. Thank you very much. We've done an excellent job resolving the leadership gendergap on WMF with male +1, female +0.
Honestly though, I can tell you that while I am glad for a moderator, having a male come in and tell me they will be making this a safe place, given the historical problems of men making this feel UNSAFE on this list and the increase in male participation, this makes me uncomfortable and more like this will be an even more unsafe space. :( The first thing you, as a male who knows there are issues with women who feel unsafe participating in this list because of those problems, is make a declaration of firm male leadership and less tolerance of this type of behavior. It feels like a major disconnect, where the end result is women will feel MORE silenced lest they offend you.
-- twitter: purplepopple blog: ozziesport.com http://ozziesport.com
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Thanks. It really makes me as a women expressing concerns about feeling unsafe and unable to talk about issues in terms men on the list feel unimportant and resolved because a man has said they do not care who moderates. Clearly the fact that a man has stepped up to enforce civility on women and other men do not care about the moderator's gender means my concerns are over blown. Thank you. As a woman interested in the gendergap, as one who feels like her voice is silenced by men, I am ecstatic that you have spoken up on my behalf. I will now go silently sit in my corner, because my voice and the voices of other women are clearly being tended to by men.
On Monday, May 7, 2012, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
I don't care who is moderating, but it would be nice to have more civility on this list. When I resigned as moderator, I invited several people to take my place (all women). They all declined citing the contentious nature of the list, except for SlimVirgin. SlimVirgin, unfortunately, was not able to moderate for very long due to health issues. That leaves us with Sue, SarahS, and Kevin. Sue is far too busy to actually moderate the list and SarahS often has a COI in moderating since she is frequently the target of attacks. So that leaves Kevin. Now that SlimVirgin has rejoined the list, perhaps she would be interested in helping to moderate again?
Ryan Kaldari
On 5/6/12 2:16 PM, Laura Hale wrote:
On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Kevin Gorman <kgorman@gmail.com<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'kgorman@gmail.com');>
wrote:
Hi all -
Given this, I'm going to change how the moderation of this list is handled a little bit moving forward. Previously, there has been no hands-on moderation of this list. From now on, there will potentially be some. It won't be draconian - and really, I hope it'll never be used at all - but I think it's important to guarantee that the atmosphere of this list remains friendly, and I wanted to announce how I will be approaching it.
This really makes this place safe. Thank you very much. We've done an excellent job resolving the leadership gendergap on WMF with male +1, female +0.
Honestly though, I can tell you that while I am glad for a moderator, having a male come in and tell me they will be making this a safe place, given the historical problems of men making this feel UNSAFE on this list and the increase in male participation, this makes me uncomfortable and more like this will be an even more unsafe space. :( The first thing you, as a male who knows there are issues with women who feel unsafe participating in this list because of those problems, is make a declaration of firm male leadership and less tolerance of this type of behavior. It feels like a major disconnect, where the end result is women will feel MORE silenced lest they offend you.
-- twitter: purplepopple blog: ozziesport.com
Gendergap mailing listGendergap@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org');>https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Laura, I'm the one who's called you out here. I don't think it is any more tolerable for sexism to be directed toward men as when it is directed toward women, and I am reasonably certain that is the case with many (present and former) subscribers to this list. There are two active moderators for this list, one male and one female. When one moderator has attacks directed at her, it is up to the other moderator to address them. List moderation is list moderation, and it doesn't have a gender. If anything, I would prefer that this list be *more heavily* moderated than other WMF lists.
In particular, I do not want to see people denigrated for coming up with ideas and brainstorming on this list, which I believe is where this post about moderation has come from. It's not acceptable, regardless of whether it comes from a woman or a man.
Risker/Anne
On 6 May 2012 18:37, Laura Hale laura@fanhistory.com wrote:
Thanks. It really makes me as a women expressing concerns about feeling unsafe and unable to talk about issues in terms men on the list feel unimportant and resolved because a man has said they do not care who moderates. Clearly the fact that a man has stepped up to enforce civility on women and other men do not care about the moderator's gender means my concerns are over blown. Thank you. As a woman interested in the gendergap, as one who feels like her voice is silenced by men, I am ecstatic that you have spoken up on my behalf. I will now go silently sit in my corner, because my voice and the voices of other women are clearly being tended to by men.
On Monday, May 7, 2012, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
I don't care who is moderating, but it would be nice to have more civility on this list. When I resigned as moderator, I invited several people to take my place (all women). They all declined citing the contentious nature of the list, except for SlimVirgin. SlimVirgin, unfortunately, was not able to moderate for very long due to health issues. That leaves us with Sue, SarahS, and Kevin. Sue is far too busy to actually moderate the list and SarahS often has a COI in moderating since she is frequently the target of attacks. So that leaves Kevin. Now that SlimVirgin has rejoined the list, perhaps she would be interested in helping to moderate again?
Ryan Kaldari
On 5/6/12 2:16 PM, Laura Hale wrote:
On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all -
Given this, I'm going to change how the moderation of this list is handled a little bit moving forward. Previously, there has been no hands-on moderation of this list. From now on, there will potentially be some. It won't be draconian - and really, I hope it'll never be used at all - but I think it's important to guarantee that the atmosphere of this list remains friendly, and I wanted to announce how I will be approaching it.
This really makes this place safe. Thank you very much. We've done an excellent job resolving the leadership gendergap on WMF with male +1, female +0.
Honestly though, I can tell you that while I am glad for a moderator, having a male come in and tell me they will be making this a safe place, given the historical problems of men making this feel UNSAFE on this list and the increase in male participation, this makes me uncomfortable and more like this will be an even more unsafe space. :( The first thing you, as a male who knows there are issues with women who feel unsafe participating in this list because of those problems, is make a declaration of firm male leadership and less tolerance of this type of behavior. It feels like a major disconnect, where the end result is women will feel MORE silenced lest they offend you.
-- twitter: purplepopple blog: ozziesport.com
Gendergap mailing listGendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- mobile: 0412183663 twitter: purplepopple blog: ozziesport.com
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I have to agree with Risker here. Laura, it sounds as if perhaps you want a woman-only space, but this is list for discussion by all, of any gender, who are interested in the issues. That doesn't mean we need to dump on men, any more than they should dump on women.
LadyofShalott/Aleta
On 5/6/12, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Laura, I'm the one who's called you out here. I don't think it is any more tolerable for sexism to be directed toward men as when it is directed toward women, and I am reasonably certain that is the case with many (present and former) subscribers to this list. There are two active moderators for this list, one male and one female. When one moderator has attacks directed at her, it is up to the other moderator to address them. List moderation is list moderation, and it doesn't have a gender. If anything, I would prefer that this list be *more heavily* moderated than other WMF lists.
In particular, I do not want to see people denigrated for coming up with ideas and brainstorming on this list, which I believe is where this post about moderation has come from. It's not acceptable, regardless of whether it comes from a woman or a man.
Risker/Anne
On 6 May 2012 18:37, Laura Hale laura@fanhistory.com wrote:
Thanks. It really makes me as a women expressing concerns about feeling unsafe and unable to talk about issues in terms men on the list feel unimportant and resolved because a man has said they do not care who moderates. Clearly the fact that a man has stepped up to enforce civility on women and other men do not care about the moderator's gender means my concerns are over blown. Thank you. As a woman interested in the gendergap, as one who feels like her voice is silenced by men, I am ecstatic that you have spoken up on my behalf. I will now go silently sit in my corner, because my voice and the voices of other women are clearly being tended to by men.
On Monday, May 7, 2012, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
I don't care who is moderating, but it would be nice to have more civility on this list. When I resigned as moderator, I invited several people to take my place (all women). They all declined citing the contentious nature of the list, except for SlimVirgin. SlimVirgin, unfortunately, was not able to moderate for very long due to health issues. That leaves us with Sue, SarahS, and Kevin. Sue is far too busy to actually moderate the list and SarahS often has a COI in moderating since she is frequently the target of attacks. So that leaves Kevin. Now that SlimVirgin has rejoined the list, perhaps she would be interested in helping to moderate again?
Ryan Kaldari
Hey Laura, I'm very sorry if I made you feel like your opinion was being discounted. That was not my intention. I was merely trying to express my own opinion and share some of my thoughts on the issue since I was previously involved in moderation of the list. I certainly don't want to turn this into a male-dominated discussion, so I'll let the rest of you hash it out.
Ryan Kaldari
On 5/6/12 3:37 PM, Laura Hale wrote:
Thanks. It really makes me as a women expressing concerns about feeling unsafe and unable to talk about issues in terms men on the list feel unimportant and resolved because a man has said they do not care who moderates. Clearly the fact that a man has stepped up to enforce civility on women and other men do not care about the moderator's gender means my concerns are over blown. Thank you. As a woman interested in the gendergap, as one who feels like her voice is silenced by men, I am ecstatic that you have spoken up on my behalf. I will now go silently sit in my corner, because my voice and the voices of other women are clearly being tended to by men.
On Monday, May 7, 2012, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
I don't care who is moderating, but it would be nice to have more civility on this list. When I resigned as moderator, I invited several people to take my place (all women). They all declined citing the contentious nature of the list, except for SlimVirgin. SlimVirgin, unfortunately, was not able to moderate for very long due to health issues. That leaves us with Sue, SarahS, and Kevin. Sue is far too busy to actually moderate the list and SarahS often has a COI in moderating since she is frequently the target of attacks. So that leaves Kevin. Now that SlimVirgin has rejoined the list, perhaps she would be interested in helping to moderate again? Ryan Kaldari On 5/6/12 2:16 PM, Laura Hale wrote:
On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Kevin Gorman <kgorman@gmail.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'kgorman@gmail.com');>> wrote: Hi all - Given this, I'm going to change how the moderation of this list is handled a little bit moving forward. Previously, there has been no hands-on moderation of this list. From now on, there will potentially be some. It won't be draconian - and really, I hope it'll never be used at all - but I think it's important to guarantee that the atmosphere of this list remains friendly, and I wanted to announce how I will be approaching it. This really makes this place safe. Thank you very much. We've done an excellent job resolving the leadership gendergap on WMF with male +1, female +0. Honestly though, I can tell you that while I am glad for a moderator, having a male come in and tell me they will be making this a safe place, given the historical problems of men making this feel UNSAFE on this list and the increase in male participation, this makes me uncomfortable and more like this will be an even more unsafe space. :( The first thing you, as a male who knows there are issues with women who feel unsafe participating in this list because of those problems, is make a declaration of firm male leadership and less tolerance of this type of behavior. It feels like a major disconnect, where the end result is women will feel MORE silenced lest they offend you. -- twitter: purplepopple blog: ozziesport.com <http://ozziesport.com> _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org');> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
-- mobile: 0412183663 twitter: purplepopple blog: ozziesport.com http://ozziesport.com
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkaldari@wikimedia.org wrote:
I don't care who is moderating, but it would be nice to have more civility on this list. When I resigned as moderator, I invited several people to take my place (all women). They all declined citing the contentious nature of the list, except for SlimVirgin. SlimVirgin, unfortunately, was not able to moderate for very long due to health issues. That leaves us with Sue, SarahS, and Kevin. Sue is far too busy to actually moderate the list and SarahS often has a COI in moderating since she is frequently the target of attacks. So that leaves Kevin. Now that SlimVirgin has rejoined the list, perhaps she would be interested in helping to moderate again?
Ryan Kaldari
I don't mind helping out in the sense of being someone to consult. I was never actually a mod (I had no access to the list and wasn't able to put someone on moderation). I haven't seen anything of late that would have made me think extra moderation was needed, but I haven't read all threads. I'd be willing, though, to be someone the other mods can run something by.
Sarah
Given this, I'm going to change how the moderation of this list is handled a little bit moving forward. Previously, there has been no hands-on moderation of this list.
Then how come I had two posts returned to me last week with the message:
5.x.0 - Message bounced by administrator
They were arguably trivial and off-topic, so I accepted that decision. But now someone says that decision wasn't being made?
If there are three moderators on this list, are all of them on the same page about what the moderation policy is or isn't? Will they be in the future?
Daniel Case
On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case dancase@frontiernet.net wrote:
Given this, I'm going to change how the moderation of this list is handled a little bit moving forward. Previously, there has been no hands-on moderation of this list.
Then how come I had two posts returned to me last week with the message:
5.x.0 - Message bounced by administrator
They were arguably trivial and off-topic, so I accepted that decision. But now someone says that decision wasn't being made?
If there are three moderators on this list, are all of them on the same page about what the moderation policy is or isn't? Will they be in the future?
Daniel Case
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I'll respond to other things shortly, but just got home and saw this and wanted to get to it right away.
If your message was bounced, it's a bug with the listserv, and not one of us. Currently, there is absolutely no active moderation on this list with the exception that messages sent by non-members are screened, and sometimes, the auto-administration filters catch and discard messages that have the list only as an implicit destination (i.e., on the cc or bcc line.) I am 100% positive about this - we don't currently have the technical ability to screen posts from people who aren't flagged +moderate, and I just checked and you are not and haven't been flagged +moderate.
----- Kevin Gorman
On 6 May 2012 18:50, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 3:44 PM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case dancase@frontiernet.net wrote:
Given this, I'm going to change how the moderation of this list is handled a little bit moving forward. Previously, there has been no hands-on moderation of this list.
Then how come I had two posts returned to me last week with the message:
5.x.0 - Message bounced by administrator
They were arguably trivial and off-topic, so I accepted that decision.
But
now someone says that decision wasn't being made?
If there are three moderators on this list, are all of them on the same
page
about what the moderation policy is or isn't? Will they be in the future?
Daniel Case
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
I'll respond to other things shortly, but just got home and saw this and wanted to get to it right away.
If your message was bounced, it's a bug with the listserv, and not one of us. Currently, there is absolutely no active moderation on this list with the exception that messages sent by non-members are screened, and sometimes, the auto-administration filters catch and discard messages that have the list only as an implicit destination (i.e., on the cc or bcc line.) I am 100% positive about this - we don't currently have the technical ability to screen posts from people who aren't flagged +moderate, and I just checked and you are not and haven't been flagged +moderate.
While I can't speak for this list, I can confirm that we have periodically had similar problems with some of the Enwp Arbcom mailing lists - that is, posts being bounced for no apparent reason. We've also had people mysteriously wind up on our moderation list when we definitely didn't add them. (And for the record, I've not volunteered to moderate this list because I already moderate half a dozen other ones.)
Risker/Anne
On 5/6/2012 5:03 PM, Kevin Gorman wrote:
...
Given this, I'm going to change how the moderation of this list is handled a little bit moving forward. Previously, there has been no hands-on moderation of this list. From now on, there will potentially be some. It won't be draconian - and really, I hope it'll never be used at all - but I think it's important to guarantee that the atmosphere of this list remains friendly, and I wanted to announce how I will be approaching it.
If, after an initial direct request to change their behavior, anyone behaves in a way that is significantly disruptive to this list, a way that is consistently uncivil, or a way that consistently makes other list members feel uncomfortable participating on this list, I will be putting them on +moderate, which means that all of their emails will be held until I approve them - and I'll only be approving emails that don't do those things.
I thought people already were doing this but not very well... I just tend to skim so I ignore most of the questionable stuff by any and all parties. But if this helps people control self so there are fewer postings of questionable nature, might read more carefully.
Thanks.
On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all -
As was announced several months ago, I am now one of the moderators of this list.
Some time ago, there was a discussion on this list about behavioral standards for this list. There was widespread agreement in the initial thread that it's important for this list to remain a safe space for discussion, even if that means enforcing a behavioral standard higher than is the norm on other Wikimedia mailing lists. I think that given the nature of this list, it would be especially, extraordinarily, unusually counterproductive to allow a consistently combative or consistently uncivil environment to take root here. Given the previous thread about it, and some off-list conversations I've recently had, I know I am far from the only list member to feel that way.
Given this, I'm going to change how the moderation of this list is handled a little bit moving forward. Previously, there has been no hands-on moderation of this list. From now on, there will potentially be some. It won't be draconian - and really, I hope it'll never be used at all - but I think it's important to guarantee that the atmosphere of this list remains friendly, and I wanted to announce how I will be approaching it.
If, after an initial direct request to change their behavior, anyone behaves in a way that is significantly disruptive to this list, a way that is consistently uncivil, or a way that consistently makes other list members feel uncomfortable participating on this list, I will be putting them on +moderate, which means that all of their emails will be held until I approve them - and I'll only be approving emails that don't do those things. I obviously don't mean that dissenting opinions aren't okay; I think they should always be welcomed and moderation will not be done on the basis of the opinion someone expresses. But, I do think that all opinions can be expressed in a civil way that doesn't make other list members feel uncomfortable.
We could create an enumerated list of rules trying to cover every scenario that could come up, but I don't think that would be necessary or productive. I think that most people realize when they stop over a line - and if they don't before someone else speaks up about it, they certainly should afterwards. I normally watch most traffic on this list, but I don't always (this week is finals for me :).) If you have a complaint about someone's behavior that you think needs moderator attention that has been missed, please send me a direct email. If someone else emails you asking to change your behavior or expressing discomfort in your posting style, please take a minute to step back and see if there could be something to their request. It's understandable that sometimes tensions will run high on gendergap issues and no one will be moderated unless their posts are consistently problematic even after being approached about it.
Feedback on this is welcome, although the basic idea (that members whose presence is disruptive to this list being a safe space) is unlikely to totally change.
Thanks, Kevin. This announcement agrees with my personal understanding of the role of a male ally. First, the action you are taking is in response to the expressed wishes of many women. Second, you took up this role after a long time of waiting for someone else to step up. Third, the actions you take will again be in response to the requests of many women. Acting in this capacity seems totally congruent with being an ally in my opinion.
-VAL
I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. Did you already invite Laura? _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 02:13, Valerie Aurora valerie@adainitiative.org wrote:
On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 2:03 PM, Kevin Gorman kgorman@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all -
As was announced several months ago, I am now one of the moderators of this list.
Some time ago, there was a discussion on this list about behavioral standards for this list. There was widespread agreement in the initial thread that it's important for this list to remain a safe space for discussion, even if that means enforcing a behavioral standard higher than is the norm on other Wikimedia mailing lists. I think that given the nature of this list, it would be especially, extraordinarily, unusually counterproductive to allow a consistently combative or consistently uncivil environment to take root here. Given the previous thread about it, and some off-list conversations I've recently had, I know I am far from the only list member to feel that way.
Given this, I'm going to change how the moderation of this list is handled a little bit moving forward. Previously, there has been no hands-on moderation of this list. From now on, there will potentially be some. It won't be draconian - and really, I hope it'll never be used at all - but I think it's important to guarantee that the atmosphere of this list remains friendly, and I wanted to announce how I will be approaching it.
If, after an initial direct request to change their behavior, anyone behaves in a way that is significantly disruptive to this list, a way that is consistently uncivil, or a way that consistently makes other list members feel uncomfortable participating on this list, I will be putting them on +moderate, which means that all of their emails will be held until I approve them - and I'll only be approving emails that don't do those things. I obviously don't mean that dissenting opinions aren't okay; I think they should always be welcomed and moderation will not be done on the basis of the opinion someone expresses. But, I do think that all opinions can be expressed in a civil way that doesn't make other list members feel uncomfortable.
We could create an enumerated list of rules trying to cover every scenario that could come up, but I don't think that would be necessary or productive. I think that most people realize when they stop over a line - and if they don't before someone else speaks up about it, they certainly should afterwards. I normally watch most traffic on this list, but I don't always (this week is finals for me :).) If you have a complaint about someone's behavior that you think needs moderator attention that has been missed, please send me a direct email. If someone else emails you asking to change your behavior or expressing discomfort in your posting style, please take a minute to step back and see if there could be something to their request. It's understandable that sometimes tensions will run high on gendergap issues and no one will be moderated unless their posts are consistently problematic even after being approached about it.
Feedback on this is welcome, although the basic idea (that members whose presence is disruptive to this list being a safe space) is unlikely to totally change.
Thanks, Kevin. This announcement agrees with my personal understanding of the role of a male ally. First, the action you are taking is in response to the expressed wishes of many women. Second, you took up this role after a long time of waiting for someone else to step up. Third, the actions you take will again be in response to the requests of many women. Acting in this capacity seems totally congruent with being an ally in my opinion.
-VAL
-- Increasing the participation of women in open technology and culture http://adainitiative.org
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
On 8 May 2012 14:42, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. Did you already invite Laura? _____ *Béria Lima*
I'd suggest that Laura is possibly not a good moderator candidate given her extremely strong viewpoint; I'd be concerned she would moderate posts, for example, on the basis they came from a man, rather than on behavioural merits - or at least that this would influence her moderator actions.
Indeed, her earlier posts on this thread IMO serve as an example of divisive material/rants that would need moderator attention.
Tom
On 5/8/12 9:52 AM, Thomas Morton wrote:
On 8 May 2012 14:42, Béria Lima <beria.lima@wikimedia.pt mailto:beria.lima@wikimedia.pt> wrote:
I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. Did you already invite Laura? _____ /Béria Lima/
I'd suggest that Laura is possibly not a good moderator candidate given her extremely strong viewpoint; I'd be concerned she would moderate posts, for example, on the basis they came from a man, rather than on behavioural merits - or at least that this would influence her moderator actions.
Indeed, her earlier posts on this thread IMO serve as an example of divisive material/rants that would need moderator attention.
Tom
I agree with Tom. This list is open to people of any gender participating. I know that WikiChix isn't around anymore, but, if folks are interested in having women's only discussion they are welcome to start a women's only mailing list, though I feel that would deter from the actual goal of encouraging broader participation in underrepresented groups, /but the latter is my personal opinion/.
However, I understand the importance for women feeling more comfortable in a women's only environment when discussing specific subjects. This mailing list was founded space for any gendered being to discuss and think about ways to improve the gender disparity in Wikimedia projects, so I'd be disappointed to see a fork, but, again, I understand if some people are more comfortable in a gender specific landscape at times. I personally find value in any gender participating, especially as someone who identifies as gender queer. As I said, I take it personal both ways - when women aren't told to participate and when men aren't, but, that's based on my own personal gender identity. (again this is my personal opinion)
I would encourage anyone who is interested in lending a hand with moderation who perhaps leans more towards feminist in regards to balancing out gender inequality in their beliefs or is comfortable in working with any gender to ping the moderators off list. It really takes little to no work, it's just dealing with the occasional hiccup in civility when it causes angst. (I generally handle the spam that gets blocked to the list.)
Thanks,
Sarah
Well, people like her are the only one i will respect to moderate me. For obvious reasons, I will not accept any moderation coming from Sarah and I don't think that list should be dominated by a men.
Btw, if someone do more for women than Laura, who had the very idea of a Woman's Camp (WikiWomenCamp - who already got a daugther - The AdaCamp) I don't know who should. The fact you like her or not is irrelevant. (Will you remove Sarah or Sue based on that?) _____ *Béria Lima* * Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 10:52, Thomas Morton morton.thomas@googlemail.com wrote:
On 8 May 2012 14:42, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. Did you already invite Laura? _____ *Béria Lima*
I'd suggest that Laura is possibly not a good moderator candidate given her extremely strong viewpoint; I'd be concerned she would moderate posts, for example, on the basis they came from a man, rather than on behavioural merits - or at least that this would influence her moderator actions.
Indeed, her earlier posts on this thread IMO serve as an example of divisive material/rants that would need moderator attention.
Tom
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
You know what, Beria? At the very least, you will have to respect Sarahs' authority. You're going to have the respect the authority of every moderator, male, female, or other, and respect the right of *everyone* to participate on this list.
From, Emily
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
Well, people like her are the only one i will respect to moderate me. For obvious reasons, I will not accept any moderation coming from Sarah and I don't think that list should be dominated by a men.
Btw, if someone do more for women than Laura, who had the very idea of a Woman's Camp (WikiWomenCamp - who already got a daugther - The AdaCamp) I don't know who should. The fact you like her or not is irrelevant. (Will you remove Sarah or Sue based on that?) _____ *Béria Lima*
Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 10:52, Thomas Morton morton.thomas@googlemail.com wrote:
On 8 May 2012 14:42, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. Did you already invite Laura? _____ *Béria Lima*
I'd suggest that Laura is possibly not a good moderator candidate given her extremely strong viewpoint; I'd be concerned she would moderate posts, for example, on the basis they came from a man, rather than on behavioural merits - or at least that this would influence her moderator actions.
Indeed, her earlier posts on this thread IMO serve as an example of divisive material/rants that would need moderator attention.
Tom
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
And who will make me Emily? How old are we that we need to have people sitting on the corner?
And authority and respect is not something that is there for miracle, you need to earn it. _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 12:46, Emily Monroe emilymonroe03@gmail.com wrote:
You know what, Beria? At the very least, you will have to respect Sarahs' authority. You're going to have the respect the authority of every moderator, male, female, or other, and respect the right of *everyone* to participate on this list.
From, Emily
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.ptwrote:
Well, people like her are the only one i will respect to moderate me. For obvious reasons, I will not accept any moderation coming from Sarah and I don't think that list should be dominated by a men.
Btw, if someone do more for women than Laura, who had the very idea of a Woman's Camp (WikiWomenCamp - who already got a daugther - The AdaCamp) I don't know who should. The fact you like her or not is irrelevant. (Will you remove Sarah or Sue based on that?) _____ *Béria Lima*
Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 10:52, Thomas Morton morton.thomas@googlemail.com wrote:
On 8 May 2012 14:42, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. Did you already invite Laura? _____ *Béria Lima*
I'd suggest that Laura is possibly not a good moderator candidate given her extremely strong viewpoint; I'd be concerned she would moderate posts, for example, on the basis they came from a man, rather than on behavioural merits - or at least that this would influence her moderator actions.
Indeed, her earlier posts on this thread IMO serve as an example of divisive material/rants that would need moderator attention.
Tom
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Sarah has earned respect. Please give it.
From, Emily
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
And who will make me Emily? How old are we that we need to have people sitting on the corner?
And authority and respect is not something that is there for miracle, you need to earn it. _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 12:46, Emily Monroe emilymonroe03@gmail.com wrote:
You know what, Beria? At the very least, you will have to respect Sarahs' authority. You're going to have the respect the authority of every moderator, male, female, or other, and respect the right of *everyone* to participate on this list.
From, Emily
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.ptwrote:
Well, people like her are the only one i will respect to moderate me. For obvious reasons, I will not accept any moderation coming from Sarah and I don't think that list should be dominated by a men.
Btw, if someone do more for women than Laura, who had the very idea of a Woman's Camp (WikiWomenCamp - who already got a daugther - The AdaCamp) I don't know who should. The fact you like her or not is irrelevant. (Will you remove Sarah or Sue based on that?) _____ *Béria Lima*
Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 10:52, Thomas Morton morton.thomas@googlemail.com wrote:
On 8 May 2012 14:42, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. Did you already invite Laura? _____ *Béria Lima*
I'd suggest that Laura is possibly not a good moderator candidate given her extremely strong viewpoint; I'd be concerned she would moderate posts, for example, on the basis they came from a man, rather than on behavioural merits - or at least that this would influence her moderator actions.
Indeed, her earlier posts on this thread IMO serve as an example of divisive material/rants that would need moderator attention.
Tom
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Obviously not from me, or we would not having this talk. _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 16:02, Emily Monroe emilymonroe03@gmail.com wrote:
Sarah has earned respect. Please give it.
From, Emily
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.ptwrote:
And who will make me Emily? How old are we that we need to have people sitting on the corner?
And authority and respect is not something that is there for miracle, you need to earn it. _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 12:46, Emily Monroe emilymonroe03@gmail.com wrote:
You know what, Beria? At the very least, you will have to respect Sarahs' authority. You're going to have the respect the authority of every moderator, male, female, or other, and respect the right of *everyone* to participate on this list.
From, Emily
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.ptwrote:
Well, people like her are the only one i will respect to moderate me. For obvious reasons, I will not accept any moderation coming from Sarah and I don't think that list should be dominated by a men.
Btw, if someone do more for women than Laura, who had the very idea of a Woman's Camp (WikiWomenCamp - who already got a daugther - The AdaCamp) I don't know who should. The fact you like her or not is irrelevant. (Will you remove Sarah or Sue based on that?) _____ *Béria Lima*
Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 10:52, Thomas Morton morton.thomas@googlemail.comwrote:
On 8 May 2012 14:42, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. Did you already invite Laura? _____ *Béria Lima*
I'd suggest that Laura is possibly not a good moderator candidate given her extremely strong viewpoint; I'd be concerned she would moderate posts, for example, on the basis they came from a man, rather than on behavioural merits - or at least that this would influence her moderator actions.
Indeed, her earlier posts on this thread IMO serve as an example of divisive material/rants that would need moderator attention.
Tom
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Okay. Why DOESN'T Sarah deserve your respect?
From, Emily
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
Obviously not from me, or we would not having this talk. _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 16:02, Emily Monroe emilymonroe03@gmail.com wrote:
Sarah has earned respect. Please give it.
From, Emily
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.ptwrote:
And who will make me Emily? How old are we that we need to have people sitting on the corner?
And authority and respect is not something that is there for miracle, you need to earn it. _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 12:46, Emily Monroe emilymonroe03@gmail.com wrote:
You know what, Beria? At the very least, you will have to respect Sarahs' authority. You're going to have the respect the authority of every moderator, male, female, or other, and respect the right of *everyone* to participate on this list.
From, Emily
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.ptwrote:
Well, people like her are the only one i will respect to moderate me. For obvious reasons, I will not accept any moderation coming from Sarah and I don't think that list should be dominated by a men.
Btw, if someone do more for women than Laura, who had the very idea of a Woman's Camp (WikiWomenCamp - who already got a daugther - The AdaCamp) I don't know who should. The fact you like her or not is irrelevant. (Will you remove Sarah or Sue based on that?) _____ *Béria Lima*
Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 10:52, Thomas Morton morton.thomas@googlemail.comwrote:
On 8 May 2012 14:42, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
> I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. > Did you already invite Laura? > _____ > *Béria Lima* >
I'd suggest that Laura is possibly not a good moderator candidate given her extremely strong viewpoint; I'd be concerned she would moderate posts, for example, on the basis they came from a man, rather than on behavioural merits - or at least that this would influence her moderator actions.
Indeed, her earlier posts on this thread IMO serve as an example of divisive material/rants that would need moderator attention.
Tom
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Why do you write in capitals letters? _____ *Béria Lima
**Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 16:19, Emily Monroe emilymonroe03@gmail.com wrote:
Okay. Why DOESN'T Sarah deserve your respect?
From, Emily
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.ptwrote:
Obviously not from me, or we would not having this talk. _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 16:02, Emily Monroe emilymonroe03@gmail.com wrote:
Sarah has earned respect. Please give it.
From, Emily
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.ptwrote:
And who will make me Emily? How old are we that we need to have people sitting on the corner?
And authority and respect is not something that is there for miracle, you need to earn it. _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 12:46, Emily Monroe emilymonroe03@gmail.com wrote:
You know what, Beria? At the very least, you will have to respect Sarahs' authority. You're going to have the respect the authority of every moderator, male, female, or other, and respect the right of *everyone* to participate on this list.
From, Emily
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.ptwrote:
Well, people like her are the only one i will respect to moderate me. For obvious reasons, I will not accept any moderation coming from Sarah and I don't think that list should be dominated by a men.
Btw, if someone do more for women than Laura, who had the very idea of a Woman's Camp (WikiWomenCamp - who already got a daugther - The AdaCamp) I don't know who should. The fact you like her or not is irrelevant. (Will you remove Sarah or Sue based on that?) _____ *Béria Lima*
Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 10:52, Thomas Morton morton.thomas@googlemail.comwrote:
> On 8 May 2012 14:42, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote: > >> I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. >> Did you already invite Laura? >> _____ >> *Béria Lima* >> > > I'd suggest that Laura is possibly not a good moderator candidate > given her extremely strong viewpoint; I'd be concerned she would moderate > posts, for example, on the basis they came from a man, rather than on > behavioural merits - or at least that this would influence her moderator > actions. > > Indeed, her earlier posts on this thread IMO serve as an example of > divisive material/rants that would need moderator attention. > > Tom > > _______________________________________________ > Gendergap mailing list > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap > >
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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A debate over civility and cultural definitions of due respect could go on forever and become quite contentious... This seems like it would be a good opportunity for Kevin or another moderator to step in and kill this thread before it gets further out of hand.
~Nathan
Nathan, I agree!
From, Emily
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
A debate over civility and cultural definitions of due respect could go on forever and become quite contentious... This seems like it would be a good opportunity for Kevin or another moderator to step in and kill this thread before it gets further out of hand.
~Nathan
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Actually the debate was that we need a new moderator on the team, and I suggested Laura.
All the other debates you can ask Emily about. ;) _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 16:34, Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
A debate over civility and cultural definitions of due respect could go on forever and become quite contentious... This seems like it would be a good opportunity for Kevin or another moderator to step in and kill this thread before it gets further out of hand.
~Nathan
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Emily Monroe emilymonroe03@gmail.com wrote:
Okay. Why DOESN'T Sarah deserve your respect?
From, Emily
I am not comfortable with Beria's stance either, but I don't know that confronting him on the list over it will help anything.
We have personality conflicts on the list. The moderation should be independent of that and based on behavior not who likes or dislikes whom, I hope.
George I'm a woman (a young lady if you're from UK)! There are no reason for you to address me with masculine pronouns ;) _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 16:27, George Herbert george.herbert@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Emily Monroe emilymonroe03@gmail.com wrote:
Okay. Why DOESN'T Sarah deserve your respect?
From, Emily
I am not comfortable with Beria's stance either, but I don't know that confronting him on the list over it will help anything.
We have personality conflicts on the list. The moderation should be independent of that and based on behavior not who likes or dislikes whom, I hope.
-- -george william herbert george.herbert@gmail.com
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
George I'm a woman (a young lady if you're from UK)! There are no reason for you to address me with masculine pronouns ;)
I am extremely sorry. That had escaped my notice previously, no offense intended...
No problem at all, several people think I'm a man and grandson of Beriahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beria(which I'm not, let's make it clear ;) ) _____ *Béria Lima*
*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a construir esse sonho. http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos*
On 8 May 2012 16:55, George Herbert george.herbert@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Béria Lima beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
George I'm a woman (a young lady if you're from UK)! There are no reason
for
you to address me with masculine pronouns ;)
I am extremely sorry. That had escaped my notice previously, no offense intended...
-- -george william herbert george.herbert@gmail.com
Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Beria- AdaCamp existed long before WWC, and I'm not sure it's really the same kind of thing -- but I'm sure Val, Sarah, or Sue can speak better to that than I can.
Pete
On May 8, 2012 8:43 AM, "Béria Lima" beria.lima@wikimedia.pt wrote:
(WikiWomenCamp - who already got a daugther - The AdaCamp)