Clearly the arguments here are a rehashing of two different versions
of feminist action - and both have been successful in winning rights
and opportunities for women in the Western world. Which you prefer
often comes down to a philosophical difference about "essentialism" -
do you believe that women are essentially different than men? As that
question is unresolvable on this list, I suggest we turn to practical
questions to resolve this issue.
1) Since we cannot know contributors' sex for certain (and thus
predict their reactions based on any kind of essentialist philosophy),
I am unconvinced that forking the list would be effective in the way
that such groups have been for the feminist movement already.
2) Since the number of people in the Wikipedia community who want to
work on this problem is small, we should work together until such time
as multiple groups are even feasible. Too much fracturing diffuses the
impact we can make.
3) Many women react in ways that are just as sexist as men. Some of
the most damaging sexism I have seen on Wikipedia came from female
editors. We should not exclude male voices based on the assumption
that they could be sexist but allow any female voice.
My two cents.
Can someone look into Danese's pages please?
She probably wouldn't mind if someone contacted her directly to find out
- Susan Spencer Conklin
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Danese Cooper <danese(a)gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: Knitters and Coders: separated at birth?
To: Mackenzie Morgan <macoafi(a)gmail.com>
Cc: debian-women <debian-women(a)lists.debian.org>
danese on Ravelry, as in life ;-). I've written quite a lot about knitting
in public, although for some reason the Wikipedia community won't leave
those references on my page :-(.
On Apr 13, 2011, at 8:04 AM, Mackenzie Morgan <macoafi(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/4/13 Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso <jordigh(a)octave.org>:
>> This is a cute blog post:
>> I know some of you knit, so perhaps you'll find this amusing. Btw, any
>> Debianistas on Ravelry? I'm JordiGH there.
> I'm macoafi on Ravelry, and I wrote a blog post about crochet & coding
> & reverse engineering a bit ago:
> (more of an Ubuntu person here, but I do maintain a couple Debian
> Mackenzie Morgan
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-request(a)lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-request(a)lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
Hi Aaron and everyone,
This is a really painful thing for me to read. As a scholar, my research
work has been based around the representation of Indigenous peoples of
North America in media and culture. I sincerely doubt that any of the
"tribal members" I know would say that this is a valid work that would
showcase their Indigenous cultures as anything but another stereotype.
Just as I'm sure some women of Tahiti today would question the relevance
today of Gauguin's paintings which often showcased nude or partially
nude Tahitian women - art revered by both genders and the Western art
world. However, I'm not seeking to speak on behalf of these individuals
and communities, nor am I hear to discuss the creators goal or context
with this featured image. It's more of the fact that /this/ is
considered a choice for the featured front page and the concern that it
has given me as a female contributor to Wikipedia, Wikimedia Commons, etc.
You also stated that you do not want to compromise "our core values just
to try to close a "gap" that some feel is such a big issue, if it even
This gap does exist, in fact an entire mailing list (which I have cc'd
here and I encourage anyone interested in the topic to join) was created
to work towards bridging this gap. This was triggered by an article
titled "Define Gender Gap? Look Up Wikipedia's Contributor List" by Noam
Cohen, published Jan 30 2011 in /The New York Times/:
A great and interesting conversation took place by NYT to reflect on
this situation, which you can read here:
I do hope that perhaps those two articles can show you that there /is /a
problem, and there are many concerned Wikipedians of all genders, skin
tones, and identities aiming to change that. That is when images like
this deter us from our expansive mission to be more inclusive.
And this has nothing to do with me being "sensitive to toplessness" -
you don't know anything about my lifestyle or character to assume that,
regardless of where I live or where I was born.
On 5/15/2011 10:53 PM, Aaron Adrignola wrote:
> Commons is not censored. It's a beautiful scene and it would be
> expected that the an imaginary tribal member would not have the
> American sensitivities to toplessness. Some images may offend. Some
> articles may offend. We're not going to compromise our core values
> just to try to close a "gap" that some feel is such a big issue, if it
> even exists.
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:31 PM, CherianTinu Abraham
> <tinucherian(a)gmail.com <mailto:email@example.com>> wrote:
> Tinu Cherian
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Sarah Stierch* <sarah(a)sarahstierch.com
> Date: Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:33 AM
> Subject: [Gendergap] Photo of the Day on Wikimedia Commons
> To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
> <gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org>>
> Surely I'm not the only one who noticed this lovely gem of a photo
> of the day today. In my work environment - NFWS.
> Direct link to image:
> I mean really? /facepalm
> This is the kind of imagery I have no desire to see on the front
> page of Commons. I'm a very liberal person, but, this makes me not
> want to even allow my MOTHER to use Commons.
> Wikipedia Regional Ambassador, D.C. Region
> Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Art
> Sarah Stierch Consulting
> Historical, cultural & artistic research, advising & event planning.
> http://www.sarahstierch.com/ <http://www.sarahstierch.com>
> Gendergap mailing list
> Gendergap(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Commons-l mailing list
> Commons-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:Commonsemail@example.com>
Wikipedia Regional Ambassador, D.C. Region
Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American Art
Sarah Stierch Consulting
Historical, cultural & artistic research, advising & event planning.
Dear B?ria Lima - I have been reading your posts with interest. You seem
quite passionately against the deletion of sexist comments. Can you say more
about why? Are you opposed to the deletion of all comments seen as racist,
sexist, ethnic slurs, homophobic, etc or is there something about censuring
or censoring sexist comments that is particularly offensive to you? I am
Frances Kissling, visiting scholar
Center for Bioethics, UPenn
202 368 3954
The title of this page needs neutrality; for example, it could read:
Dominique Strauss-Kahn: Resigns IMF Leadership Amid Sexual Assault Charges
I agree there must be presumed innocence written into the semantics, but would not want to see the victim-apparent's charges of guilt minimized either. I will not post this, but invite feedback.
The alleged victim, said to be 32 years old and widowed, was reported by National Public Radio and ABC World News, to be a Muslim who came to the U.S. on an asylum visa. The same news agencies, who interviewed neighbors of the alleged victim, reported she wears a head scarf. If these reports are accurate, this may complicate reporting abroad, given the fact that under President Nicolas Sarkozy, France banned appearing publicly in the niqab and burka, full-face veiling and garments worn by some traditional Muslim women.
In the Arab world, ightisab, or rape, is an abomination to be reported, and if there is sufficient evidence against a perpetrator, hadd may be the punishment. Muslim rape victims regain purity by ritual, are able to come forward, be seen, heard, and treated kindly (and without deprecation) when they've voiced rape charges. Some Quranic scholars interpret rape as a crime more serious than murder.
Using Reuters photos, l'affaire DSK broadened and spread into international publications including reports that Mssr. Strauss-Kahn had troubled relations with "des call-girls" in Manhattan. Other charges appeared; a maid in Mexico was said to have had a similar encounter with DSK but never reported it for fear of public disgrace. From France, the daughter of a Strauss-Kahn personal and professional associate also described inappropriate advances some years ago. Mssr. Strauss-Kahn was seen as so powerful that charges against him would ultimately be fruitless.
His alleged victim in Manhattan is said to have faith that a U.S. trial will justly prove his guilt in spite of Mssr. Strauss-Kahn's worldly influence.
For a lesson (scroll down) on the several kinds of head-coverings considered appropriate by (some) Muslim women, please visit:
This article is a bit of a disaster, and I think could really use some
attention, particularly from experienced Wikipedians and/or people
experienced with coverage of sexual assault.
I've made a couple of edits aiming to clean it up a little, but it
really needs more work -- particularly, because it covers a
high-profile alleged crime involving two living people, and they both
deserve to be treated with respect and restraint. Looks like there
aren't very many experienced editors working on it, which is a little
anxiety-provoking. So if anybody's got time to help, that would be
415 839 6885 office
415 816 9967 cell
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
The ACM-W (ACM's Women in Computing interest section,
http://women.acm.org/) publishes an irregular newsletter, and they've
put out a call for submissions... this might be a nice informal venue
to highlight some of our research, or a call for participation, or
profile some of our awesome female hackers or similar. Anyone
interested in collaborating on an article?
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "ACMW-CIS-Newsletter Editor" <mn-editor(a)HQ.ACM.ORG>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 9:10:32 AM
Subject: Winter Newsletter Posted and Authors Needed for Summer Newsletter
**Apologies for Cross-Posting**
**Apologies for Delay in Delivery of this Message**
*Winter Newsletter Posted*
The Winter Newsletter has been posted here:
*Authors Needed for Summer Newsletter*
Please consider contributing to the ACM-W Summer Newsletter. More
information is below, but the important upcoming date is 9 May 2011
where people can submit abstracts (paragraph) about their proposed
newsletter article on our web form - http://tiny.cc/ACM-W-CFP-June
Katie Siek and Suzanne Menzel
ACM-W Newsletter Editors
We ask that interested authors submit a proposal/abstract (<400 words)
of their article by 9 May 2011 to give us an idea of the articles
people are interested in writing. If you would prefer to write for the
January newsletter instead of the July newsletter, we will send
another request for proposals in the fall. We will review the articles
and schedule them for the July or January newsletters - this depends
on the amount of proposals we receive and the topics covered so we can
provide ACM-W with a newsletter that has something for everyone. We
will then send out a notification of publication date on 6 June 2011.
For those who are writing for the July newsletter, they will have one
month to write their article in a Google Doc (articles will be
approximately 1000 words). We will review the articles and then send
out some edits for the authors approval on 15 July 2011. Authors can
respond to edits until 22 July 2011. Important Dates
• 9 May 2011 - Submit Proposal/Abstract for Article on online site (here)
• 6 June 2011 - Notification of Article Publication Date
• 6 July 2011 - For the July Newsletter - Complete Articles Due via
google doc and email notification to us
• 15 July 2011 - Edits sent to authors for their approval
• 22 July 2011 - Final edits due/Camera ready
• July 2011 - ACM-W Newsletter released
Possible Newsletter Topics
• What it's like to be a woman in computing as an
• Exciting things your women in computing group are doing to help
broaden participation/do research/have fun
• Awesome research women in computing are doing
• Insightful research about women/diversity in computing
• Interview a great woman in computing (Not sure who to interview
or want to meet someone, but not sure how to connect with them? We can
probably introduce you so you can interview them)
• Anything that you think is relevant
Please note that if parts of a submission have been published
elsewhere, it is the author(s)' responsibility to receive permission
to publish it in the ACM-W newsletter. ACM-W newsletter is not a
peer-reviewed publication, it is an edited newsletter.
Katie A. Siek, Ph.D.
University of Colorado at Boulder
Department of Computer Science
Boulder, CO 80309-0430 USA
o: (303) 492-5066
c: (720) 244-0376
f: (303) 492-2844
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Librarian, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
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i want to give you a small feedback about your entries here about a
comment i did. (i found this list with a notice on my userpage in the
"Pro i like her big tits :-) Bunnyfrosch (Diskussion) 22:59, 2 January
there were 2 contra votes before, one argued not educational and
questioned: "Why manga woman rhymes with big tits?" the other replies
the "not educational" accusation. both arguments are bullshit in my
opinion. because all is educational or nothing, but i am to obliging
to told a another users his/her meaning is bullshit. for example if i
want to know how a piece of shit looks like, a picture of a piece of
shit ist educational, and if i want to know something about the
frontieres of texas, a picture of a map coult very
helpfully/educational. if people naming something not educational,
they want to say somthing diffrent. ( note this is my personal pov!)
but they vote this way, but really really often simply mean: "i hate
this pic" or "i hate this user" or "i hate every kind of nudity in the
in german i often give persons a longer feedback, in english i spare
the longer feedback. (you can read why^^) so i choose a short pro
vote, applying to the first contra. and by the way, i am not addicted
to big or small boobs - i couldn't care less!
if i had choose a longer explanation for my vote, it would like:
"wikipedia needs well draught anime pictures, with common licences,
this one is a great animation of a girl or transsexual in a beautyfull
landscape". so, thats the reason i vote with pro.
but there was no need for a argumentaion, when the contra-side argues
with "not educational"
i hope this will help you, to understand my diction in the comment.
le frog du rabbit