Clearly the arguments here are a rehashing of two different versions
of feminist action - and both have been successful in winning rights
and opportunities for women in the Western world. Which you prefer
often comes down to a philosophical difference about "essentialism" -
do you believe that women are essentially different than men? As that
question is unresolvable on this list, I suggest we turn to practical
questions to resolve this issue.
1) Since we cannot know contributors' sex for certain (and thus
predict their reactions based on any kind of essentialist philosophy),
I am unconvinced that forking the list would be effective in the way
that such groups have been for the feminist movement already.
2) Since the number of people in the Wikipedia community who want to
work on this problem is small, we should work together until such time
as multiple groups are even feasible. Too much fracturing diffuses the
impact we can make.
3) Many women react in ways that are just as sexist as men. Some of
the most damaging sexism I have seen on Wikipedia came from female
editors. We should not exclude male voices based on the assumption
that they could be sexist but allow any female voice.
My two cents.
Can someone look into Danese's pages please?
She probably wouldn't mind if someone contacted her directly to find out
- Susan Spencer Conklin
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Danese Cooper <danese(a)gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: Knitters and Coders: separated at birth?
To: Mackenzie Morgan <macoafi(a)gmail.com>
Cc: debian-women <debian-women(a)lists.debian.org>
danese on Ravelry, as in life ;-). I've written quite a lot about knitting
in public, although for some reason the Wikipedia community won't leave
those references on my page :-(.
On Apr 13, 2011, at 8:04 AM, Mackenzie Morgan <macoafi(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/4/13 Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso <jordigh(a)octave.org>:
>> This is a cute blog post:
>> I know some of you knit, so perhaps you'll find this amusing. Btw, any
>> Debianistas on Ravelry? I'm JordiGH there.
> I'm macoafi on Ravelry, and I wrote a blog post about crochet & coding
> & reverse engineering a bit ago:
> (more of an Ubuntu person here, but I do maintain a couple Debian
> Mackenzie Morgan
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-request(a)lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-request(a)lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
I'd really appreciate help with
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Netball/FAQ . We've been having issues
where American and Canadian males with no understanding of the sport don't
seem to understand that the netball article focuses heavily on the
involvement of women because of these historical issues, that they are in
part what make it notable and can be attributed to the game's popularity at
times. It would be good to improve this FAQ so that other netball in
country articles could have a version added to it.
[xposting to gendergap as this might be relevant there]
I have already asked offlist some of you I know might be interested in
bringing your kids to Wikimania, but I'm putting the question out
The Haifa team is working on finding options for babysitting during
the conference. As Liron pointed out, there are many more of us with
kids now, and we'd like to make sure that people can enjoy Wikimania
while showing their kids and family what this Wiki thing is all about.
As such, I am putting out a general call out there so that we can get
organized with this aspect of the conference.
We need to know as soon as possible who wants to come with their kids
and who would need babysitting.
We're looking at professional day-care possibilities, with a
possibility for the kids to be taken care of during the day (9.00 -
17.00) on the conference site, which will allow parents to come and go
with their kids as they visit sessions or don't.
If you're thinking about coming to Wikimania, but are reluctant to
leave your kids behind, this is the time to speak up. The more
prepared we are, the better, and the more we are, the better too, kids
are going to have fun learning about the edit button :)
While we're looking for sponsors or ways to finance this, it might be
that those of us with kids will have to pay a little to make this
happen in the best of ways. We'll try and make sure to keep the costs
as low as possible.
If you're interested, please send an email offlist to:
delphine [at] notafish [punto] org AND liron [at] wikimedia [punto]
org.il so we can get organized.
What we need from you is the following:
Number of kids:
Age of the kids:
Do you need more than just day care, for example evening babysitting
(note: this for now is an option, and is not what we're focusing on,
so we can't promise we'll get that part sorted out within the frame of
the conference babysitting options, but if we have demand, we'll
definitely be looking into this)
I hope to have lots of people interested and looking at bringing their
kids so that the day care is fun for all.
Can't wait to have my kids learn a few other languages ;)
NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails will get lost.
Intercultural musings: Ceci n'est pas une endive - http://blog.notanendive.org
Photos with simple eyes: notaphoto - http://photo.notafish.org
I am a student of Human resources and Lifelong learning from the Czech republic. I have studied in Sweden in Linköping as an Erasmus student for one year.
I am making for one of my course a small survey about wikipedia volunteers and I have found your e-mail at the Wikipedia websites.
Can I ask you some questions? It would be great if you answer them for me and if you can write me, where you are from and what you are doing!
1) Why did you start with editing wikipedia articles?
2) How many articles have you edited?
3) What are your expectations and motives to edit articles on wikipedia?
4) How would you define online volunteerism?
5) Do you support another platform as an online volunteer?
Thank you very much for you answers! I am appreciating it so much.
My e-mail is: Michala.beer(a)yahoo.com
I wish you a nice day!
If you want, you can fill the questionnaire here:
Dear Wikipedia Editors and list members,
I am very supportive of your efforts, and am trying to spread the word about
the search for female contributors and for posts about influential women.
I hope it was not too forward of me to send the following email to Ann
Enthoven of the Stanford Clayman Institute on Gender Studies.
Perhaps someone from Wikipedia could contact her and ask if the Clayman
Institute would like a seminar on how to successfully post entries.
- Susan Spencer Conklin
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Susan Spencer <susan.spencer(a)gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [ClaymanFriends] Clayman Institute and Faculty Women's Forum
Event - Barbara Babcock - April 28
To: Ann Enthoven <ann.enthoven(a)stanford.edu>
I love to receive emails about the gender studies at Stanford, although it
is not possible for me to attend (I live in Alabama.)
The current email about the seminar on Clara Foltz has a link which does not
work. Perhaps it is my browser, but I think not.
The link for the seminar resolves to a blank page:
On another topic:
As a favor to the global gender studies community, could you encourage
Professor Babcock to add her information to Wikipedia about Clara Foltz?
Please encourage Professor Rhode to add information to Wikipedia about
Professor Babcock as well.
Wikipedia is actively seeking to have reasonably referenced entries about
influential women, in addition to seeking female contributors on any
If anyone on your staff has material about other influential women please
encourage them to post to Wikipedia.
There may be a learning curve to Wikipedia posting, and there may be some
initial communication from Wikipedia editors about proper references, etc.
But posting about these women will be an asset to Wikipedia and to its
users, and will be worth the initial effort.
Once a few members of the Clayman Institute community learn how to post to
Wikipedia, they can teach this skillset to other lecturers, professors and
graduate students. I'm sure that it would be helpful and satisfying for
graduate students to post summaries and references about the subjects of
their Master's and PhD works, without posting the conclusion of their
Susan Spencer Conklin
@tusuzu on twitter, identi.ca, Quora
On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Ann Enthoven <ann.enthoven(a)stanford.edu>wrote:
> Come hear Stanford's first woman law professor talk about California's
> first woman lawyer...
> *Woman Lawyer: The Trials of Clara Foltz: A Conversation with Barbara
> Babcock *
> * *
> *Thursday, April 28, 2011*
> Serra house Conference Room (directions:
> Sponsored by the Faculty Women's Forum and the Clayman Institute
> * *
> Professor Babcock will discuss her new book and its connection to the
> movements for women's rights and for public defense. The *Judge John Crown
> Professor, Emerita*, Babcock was the first woman appointed to the regular
> faculty at Stanford Law School (in 1972) and won many teaching awards over
> her thirty years at the Law School. She was the First Director of the Public
> Defender Service in DC before coming to Stanford and on leave in 1977-70
> served as an Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Division in the Carter
> Professor Deborah Rhode, the second woman on the Stanford law faculty, will
> introduce Professsor Babcock.
> Copies of *Woman Lawyer* will be available for purchase and light
> refreshments will be served.
> Dahlia Lithwick, senior editor at *Slate*, and one of Barbara Babcock's
> former students wrote about *Woman Lawyer*:
> "Barbara Babcock conjures and brings to life a nearly-forgotten feminist
> hero. This account of Clara Foltz's rise from an under-educated farmer's
> wife to an icon of the California women's movement and a national public
> intellectual is both riveting and strangely familiar. That a single mother
> of five could have exploded into the hurly-burly world of California in the
> 1870s and through mastery of the media, manipulation of her public image,
> and dogged hard work become a national force for early progressive
> jurisprudence is astonishing. That women in 2011 could have no collective
> memory of Foltz is tragic. Babcock brings Foltz back to us with great
> tenderness and subtlety, reclaiming a place in American legal history for a
> working mother and national thinker who has much to teach us still."
> For more info:
> Ann Enthoven
> Events Manager
> The Clayman Institute for Gender Research | Stanford University |
> http://gender.stanford.edu | 650.725.0373
> ClaymanFriends mailing list
I agree with you.
Especially with handkraft information, there won't be 'references'.
You can't reference what your grandmother or great-grandmother taught you.
Same is true with fairytales or folklore.
I'd like to post some of the Irish tales my grandmother taught me.
I haven't seen them published. It would be a shame for them to die
because some bonehead decided there should be a published 'reference'.
Which means I won't be able to post what I know, what isn't in any of the
hundreds of sewing books I own, from the 19th century til 2011.
So, I'm rethinking my plans of eventual posting. I don't want to get caught
in a shit storm.
What I love is what I love, I don't want it spoiled by argument.
Plus Danese's article about the car wasn't self-published, so where's the
Let it stand...
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 15:48:09 -0600 (MDT)
> From: "Fred Bauder" <fredbaud(a)fairpoint.net>
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Woman posting on Wikipedia about knitting,
> needs investigating
> To: "Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects"
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> > On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 13:35, Sarah Stierch <sarah(a)sarahstierch.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Wow, the talk page is insane, and is one reason why I "gave up" in the
> >> beginning.
> >> I might take a stab on my own userspace to re-write this article. I'm
> >> somewhat addicted fixing crappy BLP's. Perhaps I'll send it your way
> >> (here)
> >> before I post it.
> > Could someone say again which article and talk page we're discussing?
> > I've looked at this one --
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danese_Cooper -- but can't see the issue.
> > Ditto with the talk page.
> > Sarah
> Here is the removal of the information about knitting:
> Removed again:
> This is where it was put in:
> Seems harmless enough, and hardly requires a substantial reference.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: jayanta nath <jayantanth(a)gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 9:57 PM
Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] Women's Wiki Workshop report
To: "Discussion list on Indian language projects of Wikimedia." <
Cc: Wikimedians West Bengal <wikimedia-in-wb(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Apologies for this big delay in reporting - between work, travel and the
rest of my life, I've been in a spin.
As previously announced on this list, Sanhita, a gender resource centre in
Kolkata had offered to host a half-day session on 'Gender, Information and
Technology' to explore, understand and plan how women's studies departments
in Kolkata's colleges might create content related to 'gender/women's
studies/women' on Bengali wikipedia, for use by colleges across West Bengal
(and of course, by anyone else).
The workshop was held on 18 March at the Seagull Media Resource
Kolkata wiki10 celebrations had been held in January - Sanhita
took on the venue rental and snack costs. Sanhita currently works with 18
women's colleges in Kolkata and West Bengal: it creates and distributing
information resources in Bengali on women/gender. It would like to
collaborate with a technological platform such as Bengali wikipedia to
further its goal.
Biswarup Ganguly, Jayanta Nath, Arnab Dutta and Rimi Chatterjee were the
wikipedians from Kolkata who led this workshop, along with Soma Sengupta of
Sanhita. I was invited along to bridge the gap between gender studies and
wikipedia. The entire workshop was conducted in Bengali; there were 30
participants - 28 women and 2 men, quite the gender reverse of other
workshops I've attended. Please see the
Biswarup took to get a visual sense of this.
Each of the 30 participants used English wikipedia - only 1 knew of Bengali
wikipedia; none used it. All the participating teachers are not necessarily
intending to edit wikipedia themselves in Bengali, but are 'gatekeepers' to
students. So they were more interested in a conceptual understanding of
wikipedia during this preliminary planning session, than a hands-on editing
Given the academic nature of participants, the first question was about the
authenticity of articles. How is this established? Along with talking about
the need for references and citations and the no original
research/verifiability principles, two examples [1}  were shown. The talk
page on Babri Masjid  was also used to demonstrate one aspect of the
editing process - how authenticity is constantly challenged and
renegotiated. The page on Begum Rokeya  attracted considerable interest,
since she was a pioneering figure in undivided Bengal to whom this group
could relate. The lack of citations about her was brought up, and the oral
citations project  was cited.
In a similar vein, the following pages were also discussed in detail:
Feminism portal , Gender Studies category  and Gender Studies project
page  - to see if something similar could be launched in Bengali
wikipedia with those present and others who had expressed interest via
Since some of those present saw themselves as advocates, we clarified that
wikipedia is not an advocacy platform, it is a knowledge platform - and
discussed NPOV etc in this context.
There were questions about how to take this knowledge to colleges in the
state without access to the internet or to computers. We discussed the
creation of offline CDs and PediaPress books, using online content.
All in all, there was great excitement around the prospect of
collaboratively creating gender-related content on Bengali wikipedia - Arnab
and Jayanta demonstrated this. Rimi spoke about how she uses wikipedia with
her students, while Biswarup did a quick demo of Commons.
All of us felt "a positive energy" (to quote Rimi), specially about the
"practical concrete questions about next steps" (Jayanta). One disability
rights activist from an NGO called Sruti had suggestions for improving said
page in Bengali wikipedia - and
Sanhita confirmed that several participants emailed back the next day with
Hopefully, with this optimistic start, this will now go places - and
contribute not just to Bengali wikipedia, but also to reducing the overall
gender gap. A special thanks to Jayanta, Arnab, Biswarup, Rimi, and Soma for
excellent coordination, planning, camaraderie and teamwork to make this
workshop a grand success.
Wikimediaindia-l mailing list
Fellow at Wikimedia Foundation
I've always thought that Val Henson's HOWTO Encourage Women in Linux is a
terrific document: it's well-researched, carefully-written and
comprehensive, and I think it works really well as an iconic, permanent
document. I've pointed lots of people towards it, and it's saved me saying
the same thing over and over again, many times.
It occurred to me the other day that we could make something similar for
Wikipedia. So I wrote Val a note (Val may be on this list, I can't remember.
If so, hi Val!) asking how she'd feel about that, and she's completely
supportive. So I wonder: does anyone here want to volunteer to facilitate
the creation of a version of Val's HOWTO, adapted and customized for
Wikipedia? I'd be really happy to help, but I don't want its development to
be perceived as a Wikimedia Foundation initiative; I'd rather it be
understood as coming out of the Wikimedia community.
415 839 6885 office
415 816 9967 cell
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
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