+1 wikiology

On Oct 1, 2017 4:17 AM, "Isaac Olatunde" reachout2isaac@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Daniel,

Do you think this should be compensatory or they indeed meet our notability guidelines?. For example, if they meet the English Wikipedia notability guideline, someone with no conflict of interest who think they are notable will probably write about them there. This does not implies that you have a conflict of interest but I don't think this is something you should start a thread about. They were engaged by WMF to produce the video and I think they were paid for their services. Even if it was done free of charge, they would merit a page on Wikipedia only if they pass the notability guideline. Feel free to write about them on any Wikipedia of your choice if you are sure they meet the notability criteria.

Regards,

Isaac

On Oct 1, 2017 2:07 AM, "OneMore Daniel" danencyclopedia@gmail.com wrote:

...

Mark Angel and Emmanuella just contributed greatly to Wikimedia by sensitizing their 1.3 million plus fan base Wikipedia in an intelligently humorous way. It's something the Wikimedia community would love to see. They had deserved a page so long ago!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEA0D3HYHYY Enjoy (and share!)

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I am not sure whether or not Anne and Zach are on this list, so I'm CCing them explicitly so that they can shed light.

A.

On Oct 2, 2017 10:50, "Isla Haddow Flood" isla@wikiloveswomen.org wrote:

Am I missing something …? Is this not the video that the Wikimedia Foundation created for visibility in Nigeria? It is great that it is receiving some visibility … but the way it is presented here looks like they made it (perhaps they were involved in the making - I can see that Emmanuella is the actress, yes?).

However, they have put forward this version as a standard YouTube license and I imagine it was released under CC-BY-SA license as per usual …

Perhaps the WMF should have a word ?

On 01 Oct 2017, at 12:36 PM, alimi eyitayo alimieyitayo@gmail.com wrote:

+1 wikiology

On Oct 1, 2017 4:17 AM, "Isaac Olatunde" reachout2isaac@gmail.com wrote:

...

Hi Daniel,

Do you think this should be compensatory or they indeed meet our notability guidelines?. For example, if they meet the English Wikipedia notability guideline, someone with no conflict of interest who think they are notable will probably write about them there. This does not implies that you have a conflict of interest but I don't think this is something you should start a thread about. They were engaged by WMF to produce the video and I think they were paid for their services. Even if it was done free of charge, they would merit a page on Wikipedia only if they pass the notability guideline. Feel free to write about them on any Wikipedia of your choice if you are sure they meet the notability criteria.

Regards,

Isaac

On Oct 1, 2017 2:07 AM, "OneMore Daniel" danencyclopedia@gmail.com wrote:

...

Mark Angel and Emmanuella just contributed greatly to Wikimedia by sensitizing their 1.3 million plus fan base Wikipedia in an intelligently humorous way. It's something the Wikimedia community would love to see. They had deserved a page so long ago!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEA0D3HYHYY Enjoy (and share!)

---

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*Isla Haddow-Flood* Co-project Director Username: Islahaddow

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Hi everyone -

Asaf, cheers for adding me here.

If the question is "was Mark Angel Comedy paid to make this video" the answer is yes. They took a heavily discounted fee to concept, produce, act, edit, and help distribute this video. This was managed with our creative production partner in Lagos, an agency called Anakle. The project history, participants, and further details are collected on Meta-Wiki here https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/New_Readers/Raising_Awareness_in_Nigeria.

Actor Peter Edochie, who appears in the other video skit was also compensated for his work. Again, he selected a highly discounted fee.

Overall, the production team on this project was very grateful for both Mark Angel Comedy and Peter Edochie taking this project on. They are often asked to do product or brand endorsements and decline, because they feel the products/services do not align with their interests or beliefs. Wikimedia was different- they were very excited to be part of this project, and help advance access to knowledge.

Thanks,

- Zack

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 1:16 AM, Isla Haddow Flood isla@wikiloveswomen.org wrote:

Thanks Asaf!

On 02 Oct 2017, at 9:53 AM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:

I am not sure whether or not Anne and Zach are on this list, so I'm CCing them explicitly so that they can shed light.

A.

On Oct 2, 2017 10:50, "Isla Haddow Flood" isla@wikiloveswomen.org wrote:

...

Am I missing something …? Is this not the video that the Wikimedia Foundation created for visibility in Nigeria? It is great that it is receiving some visibility … but the way it is presented here looks like they made it (perhaps they were involved in the making - I can see that Emmanuella is the actress, yes?).

However, they have put forward this version as a standard YouTube license and I imagine it was released under CC-BY-SA license as per usual …

Perhaps the WMF should have a word ?

On 01 Oct 2017, at 12:36 PM, alimi eyitayo alimieyitayo@gmail.com wrote:

+1 wikiology

On Oct 1, 2017 4:17 AM, "Isaac Olatunde" reachout2isaac@gmail.com wrote:

...

Hi Daniel,

Do you think this should be compensatory or they indeed meet our notability guidelines?. For example, if they meet the English Wikipedia notability guideline, someone with no conflict of interest who think they are notable will probably write about them there. This does not implies that you have a conflict of interest but I don't think this is something you should start a thread about. They were engaged by WMF to produce the video and I think they were paid for their services. Even if it was done free of charge, they would merit a page on Wikipedia only if they pass the notability guideline. Feel free to write about them on any Wikipedia of your choice if you are sure they meet the notability criteria.

Regards,

Isaac

On Oct 1, 2017 2:07 AM, "OneMore Daniel" danencyclopedia@gmail.com wrote:

...

Mark Angel and Emmanuella just contributed greatly to Wikimedia by sensitizing their 1.3 million plus fan base Wikipedia in an intelligently humorous way. It's something the Wikimedia community would love to see. They had deserved a page so long ago!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEA0D3HYHYY Enjoy (and share!)

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*Isla Haddow-Flood* Co-project Director Username: Islahaddow

<image001.jpg>

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*Isla Haddow-Flood* Co-project Director Username: Islahaddow

Hi Isla -

You are indeed right: the Mark Angel Comedy crew has not published the video with the correct license and attribution. We will reach out and ask for that correction.

For any who are looking to download, use, or modify these 2 video skits, they are available on Wikimedia Commons with the correct CC-BY-SA 4.0 license:

* "Emmanuella goes to school" - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_-_Emmanuella_goes_to_schoo... * "Things come together" with Peter Edochie - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_-_Things_come_together.web...

all the best,

- Zack

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Isla Haddow Flood isla@wikiloveswomen.org wrote:

Hey Zack,

Thanks for the clarity … that completely makes sense - I don’t think that anyone has a problem with them being paid to do an excellent job (at least, I don’t) - I was just wondering about the licensing on their release of the video. Perhaps you could ask them to change it, unless it is not what they agreed to? And if they are claiming the video, they should mention that they were commissioned by the Wikimedia Foundation or whoever to do it. That would tick all the attribution boxes, and keep with the licensing, yes?

With regards to whether that makes them notable enough to have a Wikipedia article, then that is for the Nigerian community to decide. But it should be because they are notable in their own right, and not because they did a Wikipedia video.

Thanks again Isla

On 02 Oct 2017, at 6:31 PM, Zachary McCune zmccune@wikimedia.org wrote:

Hi everyone -

Asaf, cheers for adding me here.

If the question is "was Mark Angel Comedy paid to make this video" the answer is yes. They took a heavily discounted fee to concept, produce, act, edit, and help distribute this video. This was managed with our creative production partner in Lagos, an agency called Anakle. The project history, participants, and further details are collected on Meta-Wiki here https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/New_Readers/Raising_Awareness_in_Nigeria .

Actor Peter Edochie, who appears in the other video skit was also compensated for his work. Again, he selected a highly discounted fee.

Overall, the production team on this project was very grateful for both Mark Angel Comedy and Peter Edochie taking this project on. They are often asked to do product or brand endorsements and decline, because they feel the products/services do not align with their interests or beliefs. Wikimedia was different- they were very excited to be part of this project, and help advance access to knowledge.

Thanks,

• Zack

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 1:16 AM, Isla Haddow Flood <isla@wikiloveswomen.org

...

wrote:

...

Thanks Asaf!

On 02 Oct 2017, at 9:53 AM, Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:

I am not sure whether or not Anne and Zach are on this list, so I'm CCing them explicitly so that they can shed light.

A.

On Oct 2, 2017 10:50, "Isla Haddow Flood" isla@wikiloveswomen.org wrote:

...

Am I missing something …? Is this not the video that the Wikimedia Foundation created for visibility in Nigeria? It is great that it is receiving some visibility … but the way it is presented here looks like they made it (perhaps they were involved in the making - I can see that Emmanuella is the actress, yes?).

However, they have put forward this version as a standard YouTube license and I imagine it was released under CC-BY-SA license as per usual …

Perhaps the WMF should have a word ?

On 01 Oct 2017, at 12:36 PM, alimi eyitayo alimieyitayo@gmail.com wrote:

+1 wikiology

On Oct 1, 2017 4:17 AM, "Isaac Olatunde" reachout2isaac@gmail.com wrote:

...

Hi Daniel,

Do you think this should be compensatory or they indeed meet our notability guidelines?. For example, if they meet the English Wikipedia notability guideline, someone with no conflict of interest who think they are notable will probably write about them there. This does not implies that you have a conflict of interest but I don't think this is something you should start a thread about. They were engaged by WMF to produce the video and I think they were paid for their services. Even if it was done free of charge, they would merit a page on Wikipedia only if they pass the notability guideline. Feel free to write about them on any Wikipedia of your choice if you are sure they meet the notability criteria.

Regards,

Isaac

On Oct 1, 2017 2:07 AM, "OneMore Daniel" danencyclopedia@gmail.com wrote:

...

Mark Angel and Emmanuella just contributed greatly to Wikimedia by sensitizing their 1.3 million plus fan base Wikipedia in an intelligently humorous way. It's something the Wikimedia community would love to see. They had deserved a page so long ago!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEA0D3HYHYY Enjoy (and share!)

---

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*Isla Haddow-Flood* Co-project Director Username: Islahaddow

<image001.jpg>

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*Isla Haddow-Flood* Co-project Director Username: Islahaddow

<image001.jpg>

-- Zachary McCune Global Audiences Wikimedia Foundation

zmccune@wikimedia.org

*Isla Haddow-Flood* Co-project Director Username: Islahaddow

True Flo, but if they are important and notable within Nigeria, then that would allow for some weight behind them being notable to the community …? If they are just minor Nigerian celebrities, then not.

On 02 Oct 2017, at 6:59 PM, Florence Devouard anthere@anthere.org wrote:

Le 02/10/2017 à 18:52, Isla Haddow Flood a écrit :

...

Hey Zack,

Thanks for the clarity … that completely makes sense - I don’t think that anyone has a problem with them being paid to do an excellent job (at least, I don’t) - I was just wondering about the licensing on their release of the video. Perhaps you could ask them to change it, unless it is not what they agreed to? And if they are claiming the video, they should mention that they were commissioned by the Wikimedia Foundation or whoever to do it. That would tick all the attribution boxes, and keep with the licensing, yes?

With regards to whether that makes them notable enough to have a Wikipedia article, then that is for the Nigerian community to decide. But it should be because they are notable in their own right, and not because they did a Wikipedia video.

One correction. It is not for the Nigerian community to decide. It is for the Wikipedia community to do so.

Florence

Isla Haddow-Flood Co-project Director Username: Islahaddow

Actually, for people, and in particular living people... the notoriety standards are pretty well defined...  living little space for variation.

Usually, we complain that we lack written sources and sources available online to double check and establish notoriety for many people from Africa.

AT LEAST, in this case... there is an online track record !!! :)

Florence

PS: I have NO idea what the standards are for a youtuber... One of my favorite is Bruce Benamran, for "e-penser" https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Benamran https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcziTK2NKeWtWQ6kB5tmQ8Q

Not yet a million  viewer, but given his topic (science), I think it is really good. I recommand his channel to any French speaking wikipedian who likes science ;) he basically done in video what we do in written format, but with more humor ;)

Le 02/10/2017 à 19:12, Isla Haddow Flood a écrit :

True Flo, but if they are important and notable within Nigeria, then that would allow for some weight behind them being notable to the community …? If they are just minor Nigerian celebrities, then not.

...

On 02 Oct 2017, at 6:59 PM, Florence Devouard <anthere@anthere.org mailto:anthere@anthere.org> wrote:

Le 02/10/2017 à 18:52, Isla Haddow Flood a écrit :

...

Hey Zack,

Thanks for the clarity … that completely makes sense - I don’t think that anyone has a problem with them being paid to do an excellent job (at least, I don’t) - I was just wondering about the licensing on their release of the video. Perhaps you could ask them to change it, unless it is not what they agreed to? And if they are claiming the video, they should mention that they were commissioned by the Wikimedia Foundation or whoever to do it. That would tick all the attribution boxes, and keep with the licensing, yes?

With regards to whether that makes them notable enough to have a Wikipedia article, then that is for the Nigerian community to decide. But it should be because they are notable in their own right, and not because they did a Wikipedia video.

One correction. It is not for the Nigerian community to decide. It is for the Wikipedia community to do so.

Florence

*Isla Haddow-Flood* Co-project Director Username: Islahaddow

Sorry Anne, I missed your email. Thanks for your comment.

Regards,

Isaac.

On Oct 2, 2017 6:31 PM, "Isaac Olatunde" reachout2isaac@gmail.com wrote:

Neither the "Wikipedia community " nor the "Nigerian community" is to decide whether they merit a Wikipedia page or not. One does not become a subject of a Wikipedia article by creating a video for WMF. If they had been the subject of multiple independent reliable sources, someone with no conflict of interest will probably write about them and this has nothing to do with the Wikipedia community or the Nigerian community.

This is a commissioned work and accordingly to Nigerian copyright law, the copyright of the work does not belong to the WMF but the creator of the work. Unless there is a contract agreement between Mark Angels and the WMF to release the work under a free license, I doubt they will change the license. I'll like to hear from Zack if such agreement exist.

Regards,

Isaac

On Oct 2, 2017 5:59 PM, "Florence Devouard" anthere@anthere.org wrote:

...

Le 02/10/2017 à 18:52, Isla Haddow Flood a écrit :

...

Hey Zack,

Thanks for the clarity … that completely makes sense - I don’t think that anyone has a problem with them being paid to do an excellent job (at least, I don’t) - I was just wondering about the licensing on their release of the video. Perhaps you could ask them to change it, unless it is not what they agreed to? And if they are claiming the video, they should mention that they were commissioned by the Wikimedia Foundation or whoever to do it. That would tick all the attribution boxes, and keep with the licensing, yes?

With regards to whether that makes them notable enough to have a Wikipedia article, then that is for the Nigerian community to decide. But it should be because they are notable in their own right, and not because they did a Wikipedia video.

One correction. It is not for the Nigerian community to decide. It is for the Wikipedia community to do so.

Florence

---

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Hi Asaf,

Thanks for your thoughtful input as usual.

Wikipedia community is the community of contributors to Wikipedia.[1]

When someone says "The Wikipedia community will decide", I tend to interpret this as a decision by group of Wikipedians since a single person cannot refer to himself/herself as a community.

If what Flo meant by "Wikipedia community " is "someone from the community", that's fine.

Regards,

Isaac

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_community

On Oct 2, 2017 6:45 PM, "Asaf Bartov" abartov@wikimedia.org wrote:

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 8:31 PM Isaac Olatunde reachout2isaac@gmail.com wrote:

...

Neither the "Wikipedia community " nor the "Nigerian community" is to decide whether they merit a Wikipedia page or not. One does not become a subject of a Wikipedia article by creating a video for WMF. If they had been the subject of multiple independent reliable sources, someone with no conflict of interest will probably write about them and this has nothing to do with the Wikipedia community or the Nigerian community.

That's rather pointlessly argumentative, Isaac, and I am responding just to set the record straight for anyone reading with less experience who might be getting the wrong idea:

that "someone" you mention who could write an article if there are good sources *would* be from the Wikipedia community, and that is what Florence meant. It *is* accurate to say that the notability would be determined by the community.

It is also true that the determining of notability would not necessarily happen now: it happens when someone decides the topic is notable and writes about it, and again whenever someone else decides to content the notability and start a discussion. But until someone decides the topic is notable and writes an article, the question is undecided.

A.