The search has to be done before the category structure is addressed, even if that needs
to be done. How else would you compartmentalise, what 32 million images?
And structured data has to be fixed before either. The reason is that structured data does
not have unique names, and I don't think people relate to the Q numbers as well as
names of things they know already. It's actually very much worse than that because
these automated "Depicts" suggestions do not appear to know about Commons
categories such that they suggest an obvious statement.
We all know it's maybe broken, but I don't see this as a fix, even if we run two
systems in parallel until the structured data is (a) mature (b) sensible and (c) throughly
reliable.
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From: Gnangarra <gnangarra(a)gmail.com>
Reply-To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Sent: 18/05/2020 15:53:35
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons
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I think we could start to make the category structure obsolete and focus
on structured data, there's already bots running basic structured data that
could be ramped up. and Having Wikidata game(
) thats instead focused on whats in
a file & its description, that would capture more structured data including
licensing. It'd help teach people more about including structured data
62million files is a lot to process so it'll take time but we can run
competitions like 1lib1ref, encourage affiliates to focus on doing Commons
structured data game as outreach events, this will teach people about
licensing, and about what makes a good photograph because everyone knows a
30px by 30px photo is crap we can have structured data items less than
100,200,500px on the long edge.
Next step would be to look at the search function, add in an advance option
with a few optional fields to fill in that searches the structured data.
The advance search option could then sort by pixel size giving the biggest
images first.
On Mon, 18 May 2020 at 22:28, Samuel Klein <meta.sj(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Commons needs iterative workflows that tag problems
and modify what reuses
/ transfusions are supported, rather than making everything a crude
delete/keep decision. Else it will always struggle w scaling to these
uses.
🌍🌏🌎🌑
On Mon., May 18, 2020, 9:48 a.m. Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l, <
wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
in the past "99% unproblematic" was
true, because most of the things
were
obvious and standard (panorama of towns, ancient
portraits), it's not
nowadays.
You can upload tons of unproblematic pictures because they are easy to
find, but you don't need them really. So they mostly clutter the
workflow.
There are a lot of images of kittens that we can
upload, good luck
categorizing them. Of course, you can switch to very specific projects
like
"documenting all small rivers" but the
core issue are also high-quality
upload. And everything is potentially problematic there: the right of an
important person to privacy, the right of the manufacturer of an
instruments, how creative is the lighting of an object? if I upload an
image of a town it's probably a very nice one, taken by a competent
photographer who clearly show them on line as well. You are in a
dimension
where you need to study, learn, ask around, find
a balance. Instead we
have
people acting randomly and superficially, because
they do not care about
the long-term effect of their actions.
This impacts the maintenance of course, because very specific issues
requires sophisticated categories, processes and metadata. The effort
there
is quite high, you are always the first one to
arrive. the first one to
clean up,the first one to explain to a third party. If you add on that
more
unnecessary stress than required, people reduce
this job as much as they
can as a necessary balance. But that job has an important effect in the
overall maintenance, so at a certain point you start to see the effect
when
it is not there.
It's not a big surprise, we tried to explain this fact for years, but the
community is designed to ignore these aspects and encourage other work
attitudes. It's just like that.
Il lunedì 18 maggio 2020, 15:28:51 CEST, Yaroslav Blanter <
ymbalt(a)gmail.com> ha scritto:
To be fair, in most cases to use Commons for uploading files is totally
unproblematic as soon as one has basic understanding of copyright. I am
pretty sure 99% of my uploads can not be deleted (I had my files
mass-nominated for deletion, once with the claim they are not mine, and
once with the claim they are holiday photos and out of scope, but both
cases admins were reasonably enough to speedy close the nominations). Of
course there are always potentially problematic cases, for example I can
imagine for one could start requiring "publication" dates for painting,
which is copyright paranoia but some people take it seriously etc. But if
one uploads something sufficiently far from the grey area it normally
should be ok.
(I am still a Commons admin, but I reduced my admin activity to a minimum
and I am not planning to increase the activity level).
Best
Yaroslav
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 3:12 PM Ziko van Dijk <zvandijk(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello Alessandro,
Thank you for your post and its insight. I recognized the same with me: I
only make use of Wikimedia Commons in lessons if I have enough time.
Also I
would introduce it only to students with a solid
knowledge of English.
Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
schrieb am Mo. 18. Mai 2020 um 13:08:
> In the end, it's more like inducing order from other projects than
caring
about the
order on Commons because there clearly can't be with people
acting the way they do.
This is a great observation! And this phenomenon contributes to the
on-going chaos, to the work-around-culture you need to adapt to if you
want
to make use of Wikimedia Commons. :-(
Kind regards
Ziko
They are also not caring for it: if you spend your time starting
unnecessary deletion procedures instead of
cleaning up categories or
description, you obviously have your priority, so we also have ours.
About the main page, we need to focus more on
media files IMHO, and of
course search is complicated but I am sure metadata can improve it.
A.
Il lunedì 18 maggio 2020, 11:33:46 CEST, Robert Myers <
robert.myers(a)wikimedia.org.au> ha scritto:
Well some people do, but it is when they get trolled by other
contributors
and/or overzealous Admin comes along and deletes
the file. They quickly
lose interest, in turn telling other people not to bother.
I just had another lot of photographs tagged by a troll, in which an
Admin
deletes (
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=File:R…
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=File:A…
> ).
> These have been on Commons for two + years, using the same camera gear
I
have used
over the years. If it is enough for me to give up on the
project,
> it would be the same for any other user but for a newbie it is
something
> that would make me run for the hills (depart
quickly as possible)!
>
> On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta <
benjaminikuta(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
> Anecdotally, it seems people sometimes don't upload their photos to
> Commons because they don't realize that the scope of Commons is much
> broader than that of Wikipedia.
>
> Has there been, or should there be, any research into this, or why
people
> > don't contribute more broadly?
> >
> > ~Benjamin
> >
> >
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