https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Minutes/2018-11-9,10,11#Branding
So this has been dictated from above - the "community consultation" is window dressing for a decision that's long been made.
Hence the nonsensical claims of massive community support by fiddling the numbers, employing literal wiki spammers to do the consulting, etc.
Samir's posts here are an attempt at managing messaging. Nothing a community member does to "engage" with this process will change the path that's been set.
Image Filter 2.0 anyone?
- d.
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 21:38, Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
It would be good to reflect the new changes/progress in the FAQ. 1.1–1.6, maybe revisited perhaps.
An email above notifies about "slowing down the process", the /Timeline page also mentions a possible delay because of the crisis. FAQ 1.5 timeline has not been edited or contains such details (a link to the main timeline page might be a good idea).
"Exploring new options" seem to be an important point in the last update. In the FAQ it is mentioned once at FAQ 2.4 while answering "Why is this project moving forward after the RfC?" However, this might be a separate FAQ point.
FAQ 2.6: "... findings of the 2030 research and planning community review [link to email],...." -- Perhaps a "link to email" is missing? If it so, it's a minor thing of course and can be fixed.
Regards, in a personal capacity
Thanks Tito Dutta Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind me over email or phone call.
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 23:22, David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
I think at this point, someone needs to answer: who has predetermined this outcome?
It's clear nobody at (say) Samir's level can or will answer this question - just repeat the same things again, as if nobody ever objected.
So precisely who is so gung-ho for this idea?
- d.
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 13:58, Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com wrote:
Hello, My comments are in a personal capacity, and kindly note my posts are not directed towards anyone specifically/at all. Sincere thanks for understanding these two points.
" We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making further conclusions here. -- Thanks for the recommendation. Kindly do not assume that we are not reading the updates "before making further conclusions here".
" the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary
about
it" --Yes, RfC needs a closure/summary, from which we get action points. Now, there is something called WP:INVOLVED. Someone who is supporting/opposing/promoting/demoting an idea or in other words someone who is "involved" often may not close or summarise a debate/discussion
with
due weight to all the arguments. As a result, conclusions may be faulty, and action points may not reflect the actual opinion of the RfC. Example below.
FAQ: Why is this project moving forward after the RfC resulted in clear majority opposition? (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
?) -- Even after reading the answer I also don't understand "why?" A point I get there is "exploring further options". On the report page, "What is happening with the feedback?" (intended action points section perhaps) is taking me to FAQ page. From the FAQ page the last paragraph sends me back to the report page, making it a loop.
" The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself. " -- unlike other statements here any footnote or reference is not given. Would love to learn what are those activities and how was the RfC
feedback
integrated into the agenda/activity. (Please note that I have read the brand workshop report.)
That's all for now, with regards, and good wishes during the global pandemic time, User:Titodutta
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 14:19, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:
Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page
[3]
in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the
development
process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project itself.
The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4].
The
RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project talk
page
[5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever
they
are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before
making
further conclusions here.
The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central
concept
is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming
convention
proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia" with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities.
Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline [6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the
full
proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation leadership and the Board.
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundat...
[3]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_mo...
Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard dgerard@gmail.com
wrote:
Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a word with them here?
- d.
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote:
When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those
whose
voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal,
just
part of the heat in the kitchen.
Cheers, Peter
-----Original Message----- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On
Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do
not
think
he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably
spends
more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
Best Yaroslav
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta trulytito@gmail.com
wrote:
> There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that. > No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC)
speak, I
just
> didn't hear that. > Kind regards, > (Comment in personal capacity) > > Thanks > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
> wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project
timeline
and
> > share an invitation to join an event this month. > > > > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the
world, so
we are
> > slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are
happening
to all
> > of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the
time and
> > priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating
the
project
> > timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and
smaller
> > time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by
month
and
> > keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed
on a
more
> > regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming
discussions
> planned > > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design
proposals
are
> > likewise shifted +4 weeks. > > > > But we do have things to share: > > > > *This month: live brand concept presentation!* > > > > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
referred
> to > > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team
will
> > present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00
GMT.
Snøhetta
> > will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual
models
from
> > the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final,
unified
concept.
> > This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming
work
around
> > the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall
design
system.
> > The session will also be recorded and made available for
viewing
after.
> You > > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a
presentation
of a
> > proposal for a naming convention or design. > > > > Thank you! > > > > Samir and the brand project team > > > > [1] > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movemen...
> > > > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network > > > > [3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/ > > > > [4] Join via Zoom: > > > > https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325 > > > > Steam via Youtube Live: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <
dgerard@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and
this is
even
> > > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed. > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company) > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29 > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty > > > selsharbaty@wikimedia.org wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the
concerns
> > and > > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and
have
now
> added > > > an > > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details
about
the
> > block > > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process
of
> updating > > > the > > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add
those
pages
> > to > > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest
information.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF > > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him) > > > > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation https://wikimediafoundation.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <
gnangarra@gmail.com
> wrote: > > > > > > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial > relationship > > > with > > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community
ban
thats
> > been > > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many
users
who
> > been > > > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but
before
> they > > > start > > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there
needs to
> be > > > > > something done to get them back to good standing with the
community
> > > first > > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to
rebuild
> the > > > hen > > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they > recommend. > > > > > > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been
pumped
into
> the > > > 2030 > > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is
that
should
> > have > > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its > > comprehensible > > > not > > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where,
how,
why
we
> > will > > > be > > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years. > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <
dgerard@gmail.com>
> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions
an
> > > unwillingness > > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archiv...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood > > > > > > peter.southwood@telkomsa.net wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I
have
seen so
> > > far, it > > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their
homework on
how we
> > > > > operate, > > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care,
and
plan
> to > > > spin > > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages
with
lots
> of > > > buzz, > > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid.
Maybe
I am
> > > wrong, > > > > > and > > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from
the
outside?
> > > Block > > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of
the
> > community. > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto: > > wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] > > > On > > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM > > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we
as a
> > movement? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't
directed
> > personally > > > at > > > > > > > you, Essie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta
deserved
> the > > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good
steward
of
> > > resources > > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that
this
> project > > > is a > > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important
component
of
> the > > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF
rebranding
> > > itself as > > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the
communities
> > and > > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures,
governance
> problems, > > > and > > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I
don't
> think > > > that > > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't
involve
> > Snøhetta > > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English
Wikipedia,
and
I've
> > > been > > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process
during
the
past
> > few > > > > > > > months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not
with
this
> > > program > > > > > > > in its current form. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and
spending
> > > associated > > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's
view
on
> > > whether > > > > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants
a
branding
> > > > > > > project to continue, I would let the community
decide on
the
> > > project's > > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant
should
be
> > > involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pine > > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > > > > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org > ?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
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https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
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https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > > Noongarpedia: > https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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