It would be good to reflect the new changes/progress in the FAQ. 1.1–1.6,
maybe revisited perhaps.
An email above notifies about "slowing down the process", the /Timeline
page also mentions a possible delay because of the crisis. FAQ 1.5 timeline
has not been edited or contains such details (a link to the main timeline
page might be a good idea).
"Exploring new options" seem to be an important point in the last update.
In the FAQ it is mentioned once at FAQ 2.4 while answering "Why is this
project moving forward after the RfC?" However, this might be a separate
FAQ point.
FAQ 2.6: "... findings of the 2030 research and planning community review
[link to email],...."
-- Perhaps a "link to email" is missing? If it so, it's a minor thing of
course and can be fixed.
Regards, in a personal capacity
Thanks
Tito Dutta
Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind
me over email or phone call.
On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 23:22, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I think at this point, someone needs to answer: who
has predetermined
this outcome?
It's clear nobody at (say) Samir's level can or will answer this
question - just repeat the same things again, as if nobody ever
objected.
So precisely who is so gung-ho for this idea?
- d.
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 13:58, Tito Dutta <trulytito(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
My comments are in a personal capacity, and kindly note my posts are not
directed towards anyone specifically/at all. Sincere thanks for
understanding these two points.
" We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making further
conclusions here.
-- Thanks for the recommendation. Kindly do not assume that we are not
reading the updates "before making further conclusions here".
" the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary
about
it"
--Yes, RfC needs a closure/summary, from which we get action points. Now,
there is something called WP:INVOLVED. Someone who is
supporting/opposing/promoting/demoting an idea or in other words someone
who is "involved" often may not close or summarise a debate/discussion
with
due weight to all the arguments. As a result,
conclusions may be faulty,
and action points may not reflect the actual opinion of the RfC. Example
below.
FAQ: Why is this project moving forward after the RfC resulted in clear
majority opposition?
(
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_moveme…
?)
-- Even after reading the answer I also don't understand "why?" A point I
get there is "exploring further options". On the report page, "What is
happening with the feedback?" (intended action points section perhaps) is
taking me to FAQ page. From the FAQ page the last paragraph sends me back
to the report page, making it a loop.
" The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development
process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project
itself. "
-- unlike other statements here any footnote or reference is not given.
Would love to learn what are those activities and how was the RfC
feedback
integrated into the agenda/activity. (Please note
that I have read the
brand workshop report.)
That's all for now, with regards, and good wishes during the global
pandemic time,
User:Titodutta
On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 14:19, Samir Elsharbaty <
selsharbaty(a)wikimedia.org>
wrote:
> Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary
> about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page
[3]
> in Meta. The team has integrated the
feedback of the RfC in the
development
> process, just as we did with the activities
organized by the project
> itself.
>
> The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4].
The
> RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion
in the Brand project talk
page
> [5], where we are answering questions and
discussing topics whenever
they
> are posted. We recommend you to have a look
at these updates before
making
> further conclusions here.
>
> The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the
> Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as
> well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming
> convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central
concept
> is a project requirement, It is very
unlikely that any naming
convention
> proposal will be based on a simple
substitution of the word "Wikimedia"
> with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities.
>
> Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming
> conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline
> [6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the
> communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this
> review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the
> timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the
full
> proposal for a brand system is presented to
the Wikimedia Foundation
> leadership and the Board.
>
> [1]
>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_moveme…
>
> [2]
>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Founda…
>
> [3]
>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_moveme…
>
> [4]
>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_moveme…
>
> [5]
>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_m…
>
>
>
>
> Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
>
> Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
>
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> > Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes
> > across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a
> > word with them here?
> >
> >
> > - d.
> >
> > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood
> > <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
> > occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those
> whose
> > voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal,
just
> > part of the heat in the kitchen.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
On
> > Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
> > > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
> > >
> > > In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do
not
> > think
> > > he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably
> spends
> > > more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
> > >
> > > Best
> > > Yaroslav
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta <trulytito(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that.
> > > > No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC)
speak, I
> > just
> > > > didn't hear that.
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > (Comment in personal capacity)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
> > selsharbaty(a)wikimedia.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi All,
> > > > >
> > > > > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project
timeline
> > and
> > > > > share an invitation to join an event this month.
> > > > >
> > > > > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the
world, so
> > we are
> > > > > slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are
happening
> > to all
> > > > > of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the
time and
> > > > > priorities of the
project collaborators. This means updating
the
> > project
> > > > > timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and
> > smaller
> > > > > time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by
month
> > and
> > > > > keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed
on a
> > more
> > > > > regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming
discussions
> > > > planned
> > > > > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design
proposals
> > are
> > > > > likewise shifted +4 weeks.
> > > > >
> > > > > But we do have things to share:
> > > > >
> > > > > *This month: live brand concept presentation!*
> > > > >
> > > > > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
> > referred
> > > > to
> > > > > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team
> will
> > > > > present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00
GMT.
> > Snøhetta
> > > > > will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual
> models
> > from
> > > > > the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final,
unified
> > concept.
> > > > > This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming
work
> > around
> > > > > the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall
design
> > system.
> > > > > The session will also be recorded and made available for
viewing
> > after.
> > > > You
> > > > > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a
presentation
> > of a
> > > > > proposal for a naming convention or design.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you!
> > > > >
> > > > > Samir and the brand project team
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_moveme…
> > > > >
> > > > > [2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
> > > > >
> > > > > [3]
https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
> > > > >
> > > > > [4] Join via Zoom:
> > > > >
> > > > >
https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
> > > > >
> > > > > Steam via Youtube Live:
> > > > >
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
> > > > >
> > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> > > > >
> > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> > > > >
> > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <
dgerard(a)gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and
this is
> > even
> > > > > > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
> > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - d.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty
> > > > > > <selsharbaty(a)wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi everyone,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to
address the
> > concerns
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia,
and
have
> now
> > > > added
> > > > > > an
> > > > > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full
details
about
> > the
> > > > > block
> > > > > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the
process
of
> > > > updating
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to
add
those
> > pages
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest
information.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Samir
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1]
https://w.wiki/LEF
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation
<https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <
gnangarra(a)gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a
financial
> > > > relationship
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a
community
ban
> > thats
> > > > > been
> > > > > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've
worked with many
> users
> > who
> > > > > been
> > > > > > > > blocked and help them become productive
contributors but
> before
> > > > they
> > > > > > start
> > > > > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we
are there
> > needs to
> > > > be
> > > > > > > > something done to get them back to good standing
with the
> > community
> > > > > > first
> > > > > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking
the fox to
> > rebuild
> > > > the
> > > > > > hen
> > > > > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support
anything they
> > > > recommend.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has
been
pumped
> > into
> > > > the
> > > > > > 2030
> > > > > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as
it is
that
> > should
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy
process. Its
> > > > > comprehensible
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding
where,
how,
> why
> > we
> > > > > will
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <
> dgerard(a)gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by
their actions
an
> > > > > > unwillingness
> > > > > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archi…
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > - d.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter
Southwood
> > > > > > > > > <peter.southwood(a)telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle.
From what I
have
> > seen so
> > > > > > far, it
> > > > > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done
their
homework on
> > how we
> > > > > > > > operate,
> > > > > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies,
don't care,
and
> > plan
> > > > to
> > > > > > spin
> > > > > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors,
flashy pages
with
> > lots
> > > > of
> > > > > > buzz,
> > > > > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they
can't avoid.
Maybe
> > I am
> > > > > > wrong,
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can
tell from
the
> > outside?
> > > > > > Block
> > > > > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their
understanding of
the
> > > > > community.
> > > > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > > > > Peter
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
> > > > > wikimedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org]
> > > > > > On
> > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM
> > > > > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand
Project: Who are we
as a
> > > > > movement?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments
aren't
directed
> > > > > personally
> > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > > you, Essie.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought
that Snøhetta
> > deserved
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that
WMF was a good
steward
> > of
> > > > > > resources
> > > > > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I
don't think that
this
> > > > project
> > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly
important
> component
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some
problems with WMF
> > rebranding
> > > > > > itself as
> > > > > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the
risk to the
> > communities
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political
adventures,
governance
> > > > problems,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with
the community. I
> don't
> > > > think
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense,
I wouldn't
> involve
> > > > > Snøhetta
> > > > > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on
English
Wikipedia,
> and
> > I've
> > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of
this process
during
> the
> > past
> > > > > few
> > > > > > > > > > months.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about
branding, but not
with
> > this
> > > > > > program
> > > > > > > > > > in its current form.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this
project and
> spending
> > > > > > associated
> > > > > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding
the community's
view
> > on
> > > > > > whether
> > > > > > > > > > this project should continue. If the
community wants
a
> > branding
> > > > > > > > > > project to continue, I would let the
community
decide on
> > the
> > > > > > project's
> > > > > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any
consultant
should
> be
> > > > > > involved.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > > > > > (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
_______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines
at:
> > > > > > > > >
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> and
> > > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > > > > New messages to:
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> > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
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> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
_______________________________________________
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > GN.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > > > > > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> > > > > > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021
> > > > > > > > August
> > > > > > > > hosted by ESEAP
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Wikimania:
>
https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > > > > > Noongarpedia:
> > > >
https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > > > > > > > Photo Gallery:
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> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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