The files were mainly kept because most of them were considered to be
utilitarian objects, but IMO the rationale was correct, as all of them are
modern props from the Lord of the Rings movie series.
Personally, I think it could be interpreted or construed as some kind of
petty revenge from Fram on Rama (every day wikipolitics) , but technically
the nominations were correct, indeed.
And it is very true that the Commons community is completely independent
from the English Wikipedia, and fiercely adamant defenders of that
independence. Someone being a sysop on the English Wikipedia, or on any
other Wikipedia project generally count zero on content decisions there.
In this specific case, it is absolutely irrelevant that Fram is or was a
sysop at wiki.en.
Best,
Paulo
A sexta, 28 de jun de 2019, 15:09, Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com>
escreveu:
I think many Commons users would be flatly insulted by
the idea that they
wouldn't take action against something done on Commons because an English
Wikipedia admin did it. Commons is as fiercely protective of its
independence as EN-WP is.
And this elides a crucial question: Were the deletion nominations largely
correct or incorrect? If someone nominates a bunch of entirely appropriate
files for deletion, that could certainly be construed as harassment or at
minimum poor judgment on the nominator's part, but if the complaint is "I
uploaded a bunch of inappropriate stuff and I got caught", that's
appropriate maintenance work. So, were those files mainly deleted, or kept?
Todd
On Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 4:22 AM Isaac Olatunde <reachout2isaac(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Nobody seems to be insinuating that Fram is
lying. It's just plain
stupidity to demonize the WMF's action solely on their part of the story
alone. Fram has penchant for irritating people he disagrees with and
it's possible they have crossed the line.
Recently there was an AbCom case against Rama, an English Wikipedia
administrator (now desysoped), Commons administrator and oversighter.
While the case was ongoing, Fram began to follow this user to an extent
that they began to mass-nominate for deletion the user's uploads on
Commons, a behavior the user considered as stalking and harassment. Some
users including myself requested that Fram stay away from Rama and their
uploads. A behavior like this would normally get users blocked but
nobody felt the reason to ban or blocked Fram partly because they wear
the
English Wikipedia's admin hat.
This incident is barely a month ago.
I am unsure if this form part of the reasons for the ban but I have no
enough reasons to think that the ban was unjustifiable.
Regards,
Isaac
On Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 10:15 AM Benjamin Ikuta <benjaminikuta(a)gmail.com
wrote:
>
>
>
> Why do you doubt Fram? What do you think happened? And why can't the
WMF
> say even so much as a, "That's not
accurate."?
>
> You really think he's just outright lying?
>
>
>
> On Jun 14, 2019, at 4:03 PM, David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If you really think Fram's framing of events here is even plausible,
> > let alone the story, then you're less competent than I have
previously
> > considered you to be.
> >
> > On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 18:47, Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> >>
> >> According to Fram, the WMF told him his "interaction ban" was
for
> >> maintenance tagging two articles, yes (and when I looked at the
diffs,
the
>> maintenance tags were accurate and necessary). So, either Fram is
lying
or
>> omitting something (and the WMF, for whatever reason, is not
challenging
> >> him on it), the WMF lied to Fram, or they did indeed sanction him
for
what
>> they told him they sanctioned him for.
>>
>> Todd
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 4:37 AM David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>>> and you're *seriously* positing that the WMF would ban an admin for
>>> doing only what you describe?
>>>
>>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 11:32, Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The only case of "harassment" apparently cited here was
"I kept
> writing
> >>>> garbage articles, and someone kept flagging them as garbage!
> Harassment!
> >>>> Bad!"
> >>>>
> >>>> If you don't want your articles to be flagged as garbage, FIND
YOUR
> >>> SOURCES
> >>>> PRIOR TO WRITING THEM, AND CITE THEM. That's rather a
requirement
> anyway.
> >>>> The editor in question repeatedly failed to do that, repeatedly
had
her
>>> articles flagged for failure to do
that, and regarded that as
>> "harassment"
>>> rather than her own failure to follow the English Wikipedia's
policies.
>>>> Next time, she needs to find the sources first, and write the
article
> >>> only
> >>>> after she has them in hand.
> >>>>
> >>>> Todd
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 10:14 AM Robert Fernandez <
> >>> wikigamaliel(a)gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> If someone is able to harass someone for years and nothing is
done
> then
> >>>>> clearly community procedures are not “perfectly adequate”
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 11:36 AM Fæ <faewik(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> This misses the point, as others have highlighted already.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The WMF can and /should/ globally and permanently ban
paedophiles,
> >>>>>> terrorists, system
hackers and people making multiple cross-wiki
> >>> death
> >>>>>> threats or threats of suicide. There are perfectly good
and
> >>>>>> understandable reasons as to why the evidence behind these
attacks
> >>> and
> >>>>>> threats would be kept unpublished, it's seriously
personal or
> >>> criminal
> >>>>>> stuff.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The WMF making topic bans, interaction bans and limited
project
> >>>>>> specific bans against Wikipedians is a brand new invention,
which
> >>> goes
> >>>>>> against the pre-existing understanding that the WMF do not
replace
>>>>>> existing and perfectly adequate community agreed procedures for
>>>>>> banning bad behaviour on our projects. Once full time WMF
employees
> >>>>>> start doing in parallel what volunteer administrators
already
do,
>>> then
>>>>>> we should question why we do not *pay* volunteers administrators
the
>>>>>> same hourly rate and we
are likely to see a mass exodus of
>>>>>> administrators. After all, would you, say, deliver the post for
free
>>>>>> in your area for fun,
but thereby take away decent full time
>>>>>> employment with a guaranteed pension for your local postie?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the reason for the WMF stepping in to ban Fram for a year is
>>>>>> because the WMF do not trust Wikipedia administrators or
Wikipedia's
>>>>>> Arbcom to take sensible
action in harassment cases, then they
should
> >>>>>> be raising that honestly and openly with Arbcom. If the
English
> >>>>>> Wikipedia's policies are not fit for purpose, or
implementation
of
>>>>>> policy is incompetent, we need a much bigger discussion than
whether
>>>>>> Fram did something so
terrible it cannot be named, but oddly was
not
> >>>>>> worth a global ban but only the equivalent of a 12 month
block
on
>>>>>> Wikipedia while they are free to do whatever they feel like on
other
> >>>>>> Wikimedia projects.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Fae
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> faewik(a)gmail.com
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 15:35, John Erling Blad <
jeblad(a)gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> When you bad mouth other users there should be, and
will be,
> >>>>>> consequences.
> >>>>>>> An admin got desysoped and banned after repeated
warnings? So
> >>> what? The
> >>>>>>> only ting to be learned is that some people believe
they can do
> >>>>> whatever
> >>>>>>> they want and it has no consequences, and other people
goes
> >>> ballistic
> >>>>>> when
> >>>>>>> consequences happen.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I would have given desysoped fram and 14 days to cool
off, and
if
>>> that
>>>>>> did
>>>>>>> not work out repeated with one month. Banning someone for
one
year
>>
is
>>>>> like
>>>>>> telling them to leave and don't come back. Someone at WMF is
>> clearly
>>>>> overly
>>>>>> sensitive, but not reacting would also be wrong.
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