You ought to read the entire paragraph. Such as the part where I explicitly
acknowledged that Fram's version of events may be inaccurate or incomplete.
Todd
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 5:03 PM David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
If you really think Fram's framing of events here
is even plausible,
let alone the story, then you're less competent than I have previously
considered you to be.
On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 18:47, Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
According to Fram, the WMF told him his "interaction ban" was for
maintenance tagging two articles, yes (and when I looked at the diffs,
the
maintenance tags were accurate and necessary).
So, either Fram is lying
or
omitting something (and the WMF, for whatever
reason, is not challenging
him on it), the WMF lied to Fram, or they did indeed sanction him for
what
they told him they sanctioned him for.
Todd
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 4:37 AM David Gerard <dgerard(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> and you're *seriously* positing that the WMF would ban an admin for
> doing only what you describe?
>
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 11:32, Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > The only case of "harassment" apparently cited here was "I kept
writing
> > garbage articles, and someone kept
flagging them as garbage!
Harassment!
> > Bad!"
> >
> > If you don't want your articles to be flagged as garbage, FIND YOUR
> SOURCES
> > PRIOR TO WRITING THEM, AND CITE THEM. That's rather a requirement
anyway.
> > The editor in question repeatedly
failed to do that, repeatedly had
her
> > articles flagged for failure to do
that, and regarded that as
> "harassment"
> > rather than her own failure to follow the English Wikipedia's
policies.
> > Next time, she needs to find the
sources first, and write the article
> only
> > after she has them in hand.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 10:14 AM Robert Fernandez <
> wikigamaliel(a)gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > If someone is able to harass someone for years and nothing is done
then
> > > clearly community procedures are
not “perfectly adequate”
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 11:36 AM Fæ <faewik(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > This misses the point, as others have highlighted already.
> > > >
> > > > The WMF can and /should/ globally and permanently ban
paedophiles,
> > > > terrorists, system hackers
and people making multiple cross-wiki
> death
> > > > threats or threats of suicide. There are perfectly good and
> > > > understandable reasons as to why the evidence behind these
attacks
> and
> > > > threats would be kept unpublished, it's seriously personal or
> criminal
> > > > stuff.
> > > >
> > > > The WMF making topic bans, interaction bans and limited project
> > > > specific bans against Wikipedians is a brand new invention, which
> goes
> > > > against the pre-existing understanding that the WMF do not
replace
> > > > existing and perfectly
adequate community agreed procedures for
> > > > banning bad behaviour on our projects. Once full time WMF
employees
> > > > start doing in parallel what
volunteer administrators already do,
> then
> > > > we should question why we do not *pay* volunteers administrators
the
> > > > same hourly rate and we are
likely to see a mass exodus of
> > > > administrators. After all, would you, say, deliver the post for
free
> > > > in your area for fun, but
thereby take away decent full time
> > > > employment with a guaranteed pension for your local postie?
> > > >
> > > > If the reason for the WMF stepping in to ban Fram for a year is
> > > > because the WMF do not trust Wikipedia administrators or
Wikipedia's
> > > > Arbcom to take sensible
action in harassment cases, then they
should
> > > > be raising that honestly and
openly with Arbcom. If the English
> > > > Wikipedia's policies are not fit for purpose, or implementation
of
> > > > policy is incompetent, we
need a much bigger discussion than
whether
> > > > Fram did something so
terrible it cannot be named, but oddly was
not
> > > > worth a global ban but only
the equivalent of a 12 month block on
> > > > Wikipedia while they are free to do whatever they feel like on
other
> >
> Wikimedia projects.
> > >
> > > Fae
> > > --
> > > faewik(a)gmail.com
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > >
> > > On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 15:35, John Erling Blad <jeblad(a)gmail.com
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > When you bad mouth other users there should be, and will be,
> > > > consequences.
> > > > > An admin got desysoped and banned after repeated warnings? So
> what? The
> > > > > only ting to be learned is that some people believe they can do
> > > whatever
> > > > > they want and it has no consequences, and other people goes
> ballistic
> > > > when
> > > > > consequences happen.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would have given desysoped fram and 14 days to cool off, and
if
> that
> > > > did
> > > > > not work out repeated with one month. Banning someone for one
year
> is
> > > > like
> > > > > telling them to leave and don't come back. Someone at WMF
is
> clearly
> > > > overly
> > > > > sensitive, but not reacting would also be wrong.
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