Wow, that logs page is something else. Pretty ironic
that Bishonen would
accuse the Office account of "wheel warring", when the wheel warring policy
explicitly states that reversing an Office Action is indicative of wheel
warring. So I'm *sure* we'll see suitable discussions of sanctions for the
knowing, planned, intentional reversal of an office action against policy,
right?
Possible indications of an incipient wheel war:
- An administrator getting too distressed to discuss calmly.
- Deliberately ignoring an existing discussion in favor of a
unilateral preferred action.
- Abruptly undoing administrator actions without consultation.
- *Reversal of a Wikimedia Foundation office action
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Office_actions>.*
Dan Rosenthal
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 5:06 PM effe iets anders <effeietsanders(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Great, now we have a wheelwar going on (
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/block&page=Fram
). I
have a hard time seeing how this would help anyone.
A massive discussion where everyone tries to say something and nobody
really reads everything (because how could you) is not going to lead to
any
constructive outcome. I hope that someone picks up the challenge and
brings
together the WMF and community before this spins further out of control.
(I'm naively assuming that the WMF would be willing to engage at least
privately in conversation if it relies on private information, or publicly
if it does not).
Lodewijk
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 2:40 PM Robert Fernandez <wikigamaliel(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Framing it as "competence over
politeness" is convenient for the
people who do not want the latter and imagine they are the former.
It also insults the editors who have managed to do both. I know an
en.wp editor who has dozens of FAs and somehow managed the herculean
feat of not referring to anyone on Wikipedia using the c-word.
Framing it as "the culture of the community" leaves out of the
community all of us who are sick of this behavior, including long-time
veterans of the community like myself (fifteen years), and community
victims of harassment asking T&S for help.
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 1:58 PM Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> "Before asking why WMF has banned an admin (and if Fram was not an
admin,
> all these discussions would not have been
done), we need to ask
ourselves
> why we (other users) have allowed such an
attitude without
intervening to
> stop it."
>
> First, if Fram were a well-known editor but not an admin, yes, there
> absolutely would be such a discussion. But as to why, the answer, very
> simply, is that the English Wikipedia community values competence over
> politeness, and probably always will. That is part of the culture of
the
> community, and the WMF has no right to
override that.
>
> Todd
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 6:46 AM camelia boban <
camelia.boban(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I quote David and Isaac.
> > Harassment is a serious thing and hounding another user is out of
any
> wiki
> > > behavior.
> > > Before asking why WMF has banned an admin (and if Fram was not an
> admin,
>
> all these discussions would not have
been done), we need to ask
> ourselves
>
> why we (other users) have allowed such
an attitude without
intervening
to
> > stop it.
> >
> >
> > Camelia
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Camelia Boban*
> >
> > *| Java EE Developer |*
> >
> > *Affiliations Committee - **Wikimedia *Foundation
> > Coordinator - Diversity Working Group for Wikimedia Strategy 2030
> > Chair & co-founder - WikiDonne User Group *| WikiDonne Project
ideator*
> >
> > *Diversity Space @ Wikimania 2019 Co-Lead*
> > WMIT - WMSE - WMCH - WMAR Member
> >
> > M. +39 3383385545
> > camelia.boban(a)gmail.com
> > *Aissa Technologies* <http://aissatechnologies.eu/>* | *Twitter
> > <https://twitter.com/cameliaboban> *|* *LinkedIn
> > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/camelia-boban-31319122>*
> > *Wikipedia <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Camelia.boban> **|
> > **WikiDonne
> > UG <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiDonne>* | *WikiDonne
Project
> >
<https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progetto:WikiDonne> *
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Il giorno ven 14 giu 2019 alle ore 14:32 Mister Thrapostibongles <
> > thrapostibongles(a)gmail.com> ha scritto:
> >
> > > Fæ
> > >
> > > [...] the pre-existing understanding that the WMF do not replace
> > > > existing and perfectly adequate community agreed procedures for
> > > > banning bad behaviour on our projects.
> > >
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, there is ample evidence that the existing English
> > Wikipedia
> > > community processes are not "perfectly adequate" for that
purpose.
> > >
> > >
> > > > If the English
> > > > Wikipedia's policies are not fit for purpose, or implementation
of
> >
> policy is incompetent, we need a much bigger discussion
> >
> >
> > Indeed. Unfortunately the tone of the discussion here and at
> >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia…
> >
suggests
> > that the requisite discussion is now less, not more, likely to
happen
or
> be
> > productive.
> >
> > Thrapostibongles
> > _______________________________________________
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