Framing it as "competence over politeness" is convenient for the
people who do not want the latter and imagine they are the former.
It also insults the editors who have managed to do both. I know an
en.wp editor who has dozens of FAs and somehow managed the herculean
feat of not referring to anyone on Wikipedia using the c-word.
Framing it as "the culture of the community" leaves out of the
community all of us who are sick of this behavior, including long-time
veterans of the community like myself (fifteen years), and community
victims of harassment asking T&S for help.
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 1:58 PM Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
"Before asking why WMF has banned an admin (and if Fram was not an admin,
all these discussions would not have been done), we need to ask ourselves
why we (other users) have allowed such an attitude without intervening to
stop it."
First, if Fram were a well-known editor but not an admin, yes, there
absolutely would be such a discussion. But as to why, the answer, very
simply, is that the English Wikipedia community values competence over
politeness, and probably always will. That is part of the culture of the
community, and the WMF has no right to override that.
Todd
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 6:46 AM camelia boban <camelia.boban(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
I quote David and Isaac.
Harassment is a serious thing and hounding another user is out of any wiki
behavior.
Before asking why WMF has banned an admin (and if Fram was not an admin,
all these discussions would not have been done), we need to ask ourselves
why we (other users) have allowed such an attitude without intervening to
stop it.
Camelia
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Coordinator - Diversity Working Group for Wikimedia Strategy 2030
Chair & co-founder - WikiDonne User Group *| WikiDonne Project ideator*
*Diversity Space @ Wikimania 2019 Co-Lead*
WMIT - WMSE - WMCH - WMAR Member
M. +39 3383385545
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<https://twitter.com/cameliaboban> *|* *LinkedIn
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/camelia-boban-31319122>*
*Wikipedia <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Camelia.boban> **|
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Il giorno ven 14 giu 2019 alle ore 14:32 Mister Thrapostibongles <
thrapostibongles(a)gmail.com> ha scritto:
Fæ
[...] the pre-existing understanding that the WMF do not replace
existing and perfectly adequate community agreed
procedures for
banning bad behaviour on our projects.
Unfortunately, there is ample evidence that the existing English
Wikipedia
community processes are not "perfectly
adequate" for that purpose.
If the English
Wikipedia's policies are not fit for purpose, or implementation of
policy is incompetent, we need a much bigger discussion
Indeed. Unfortunately the tone of the discussion here and at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia…
suggests
that the requisite discussion is now less, not more, likely to happen or
be
productive.
Thrapostibongles
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