That's overstating the community's position a bit, I think. Despite the
occasional attempt to get rid of the civility policy, the community has
continued to support it -- at least in the abstract -- and generally has no
problem whatsoever in sanctioning an ordinary, run-of-the-mill editor for
being uncivil, even when that editor is perfectly competent.
Rather, the problem occurs when a *popular* competent editor violates the
civility policy (or, for particularly popular editors, virtually any other
policy); the traditional consensus-based approach to policy enforcement
makes it difficult, if not impossible, to effectively sanction an editor
with a substantial contingent of vocal supporters who will argue against
any such sanctions whenever the opportunity arises.
Kirill
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 1:58 PM Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
"Before asking why WMF has banned an admin (and
if Fram was not an admin,
all these discussions would not have been done), we need to ask ourselves
why we (other users) have allowed such an attitude without intervening to
stop it."
First, if Fram were a well-known editor but not an admin, yes, there
absolutely would be such a discussion. But as to why, the answer, very
simply, is that the English Wikipedia community values competence over
politeness, and probably always will. That is part of the culture of the
community, and the WMF has no right to override that.
Todd
On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 6:46 AM camelia boban <camelia.boban(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
I quote David and Isaac.
Harassment is a serious thing and hounding another user is out of any
wiki
behavior.
Before asking why WMF has banned an admin (and if Fram was not an admin,
all these discussions would not have been done), we need to ask ourselves
why we (other users) have allowed such an attitude without intervening to
stop it.
Camelia
--
*Camelia Boban*
*| Java EE Developer |*
*Affiliations Committee - **Wikimedia *Foundation
Coordinator - Diversity Working Group for Wikimedia Strategy 2030
Chair & co-founder - WikiDonne User Group *| WikiDonne Project ideator*
*Diversity Space @ Wikimania 2019 Co-Lead*
WMIT - WMSE - WMCH - WMAR Member
M. +39 3383385545
camelia.boban(a)gmail.com
*Aissa Technologies* <http://aissatechnologies.eu/>* | *Twitter
<https://twitter.com/cameliaboban> *|* *LinkedIn
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/camelia-boban-31319122>*
*Wikipedia <https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Camelia.boban> **|
**WikiDonne
UG <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiDonne>* | *WikiDonne Project
<https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progetto:WikiDonne> *
Il giorno ven 14 giu 2019 alle ore 14:32 Mister Thrapostibongles <
thrapostibongles(a)gmail.com> ha scritto:
Fæ
[...] the pre-existing understanding that the WMF do not replace
existing and perfectly adequate community agreed
procedures for
banning bad behaviour on our projects.
Unfortunately, there is ample evidence that the existing English
Wikipedia
community processes are not "perfectly
adequate" for that purpose.
If the English
Wikipedia's policies are not fit for purpose, or implementation of
policy is incompetent, we need a much bigger discussion
Indeed. Unfortunately the tone of the discussion here and at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_response_to_the_Wikimedia…
> suggests
> that the requisite discussion is now less, not more, likely to happen
or
be
productive.
Thrapostibongles
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>