I would like to reserve the right to say "fuck arbcom", "fuck the WMF", or "fuck the admins", just like I deserve the right to say "fuck the police" or "fuck the judiciary system".
Regardless whether you think so or not, I dont think that's within WMFs remit to police and enforce.
On Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 10:09 Chris Keating chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com wrote:
I think we should probably reflect on the fact we've got to the point where arguments along the lines of
"This guy shouldn't be blocked, he was only telling people to fuck themselves"
are sort of normal.
This kind of behaviour wouldn't be acceptable in any other movement or community or workplace... Why here?
(Also I think it's clear this was not the only issue... so while I have some concerns about the "how" here, I'm struggling to disagree with the outcome)
Chris
On Wed, 12 Jun 2019, 07:44 Yair Rand, yyairrand@gmail.com wrote:
Philippe, the email from Trust & Safety said quite clearly that the ban
was
triggered by edit 895438118. I assume that T&S would not lie about their reasons for something like this.
בתאריך יום ג׳, 11 ביוני 2019 ב-22:35 מאת Philippe Beaudette < philippe@beaudette.me>:
Nathan writes:
*“Why are WMF staffers so*
*deeply, fundamentally disconnected from the communities where they
feel
the* *right to ban people for saying "fuck arbcom"?”*
I’ve seen no evidence that this is the case here and would be utterly shocked if a t&s staff member had indeed banned for saying that.
If the situation is anything like what it was when I was at WMF, a ban
such
as this requires multiple levels of review by a couple of different
teams
(in my time, we would not have considered a ban such as this without
sign
off from the community and legal teams, for instance). I don’t know if
the
process is the same now but I would be surprised to hear that any
single
staff member would feel comfortable banning on his or her authority
alone.
Multiple levels of review exist in order to ensure that ban reasons are valid and appropriate.
Philippe
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 6:55 PM Nathan nawrich@gmail.com wrote:
Wow, what a cluster. How does the WMF get themselves into these
things? I
have ten edits to en.wp since 2018 and even I could have 100%
predicted
the
entire spectrum, and scale, of the reaction here. Why are WMF
staffers
so
deeply, fundamentally disconnected from the communities where they
feel
the
right to ban people for saying "fuck arbcom"?
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:49 PM Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com
wrote:
Amir, yes, ArbCom members must sign the WMF confidentiality
agreement
for
nonpublic information (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Confidentiality_agreement_for_nonpublic_info...
) , as must all functionaries (checkuser, oversight, etc.). I was on
the
English Wikipedia ArbCom for two years, and it was routine for us
to
deal
with sensitive, private information.
Todd
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 9:46 AM Amir Sarabadani <
ladsgroup@gmail.com
wrote:
People who oppose the ban: Are you aware of all aspects and
things
Fram
has
done? Do you have the full picture? It's really saddening to see
how
fast
people jump to conclusion in page mentioned in the email. I
personally,
don't know what happened so I neither can support or oppose the
ban.
As
simple as that.
So what should be done IMO. If enwiki wants to know more, a
community
body
can ask for more information, if body satisfy two things:
- They had signed NDA not to disclose the case
- They are trusted by the community
I think the only body can sorta work with this is stewards but
not
sure
(Does ArbCom NDA'ed?)
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:58 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lack of transparency from the WMF, whatelse is new. > I'm currently under a funding ban secretly decided (by who?)
based
on a
> false accusation, without providing any evidence. Until now I'm
waiting
for > an explanation from the WMF. So, this sort of attitude doesn't
surprise
me > at all. > It is very unfortunate that the WMF apparently thrives in this
kind
of
> medieval obscurity, the opposite of the values of the Wikimedia
Movement.
> Matter for Roles & Reponsibilities. > > Best, > Paulo > > > Benjamin Ikuta benjaminikuta@gmail.com escreveu no dia
terça,
11/06/2019 > à(s) 05:45: > > > > > > > > > Thanks for this. > > > > I'm glad to see I'm not the only one dismayed by the
unilateralism
and
> > lack of transparency. > > > > > > > > On Jun 10, 2019, at 8:25 PM, Techman224 <
techman224@techman224.ca>
> wrote: > > > > > Forwarding to WIkimedia-l since WikiEN-l is relatively
dead.
> > > > > > Since this message, an Arbcom member (SilkTork) stated that
they
> weren't > > consulted, nor did this action was the result of Arbcom
forwarding
a
> > concern to the office. [1] > > > > > > The only non-response excuse from the WMF [2] was that
"local
> > communities consistently struggle to uphold not just their
own
autonomous > > rules but the Terms of Use, too.” even though there were no
complaints
> > on-wiki nor to Arbcom privately. > > > > > > The on-wiki discussion is taking place at the Bureaucrats
and
the
> Arbcom > > noticeboards. > > > > > > > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#User:Fram...
> > < > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#User:Fram...
> > > > > > > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboa...
> > > > > > [1] > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Commit...
> > < > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Commit...
> > > > > > [2] > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#Statement...
> > > > > > Techman224 > > > > > >> Begin forwarded message: > > >> > > >> From: George Herbert george.herbert@gmail.com > > >> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block > > >> Date: June 10, 2019 at 8:54:34 PM CDT > > >> To: English Wikipedia wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> > > >> In case you're not following on-wiki - Office S&T blocked
English
> > Wikipedia > > >> user / administrator Fram for a year and desysopped, for
unspecified
> > >> reasons in the Office purview. There was a brief
statement
here
from > > >> Office regarding it which gave no details other than that
normal
> policy > > and > > >> procedures for Office actions were followed, which under
normal
> > >> circumstances preclude public comments. > > >> > > >> > > >
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#User:Fram...
> > >> > > >> Several people on Arbcom and board have commented they're
making
> private > > >> inquiries under normal reporting and communication
channels,
due
to
> the > > >> oddity and essentially uniqueness of the action. > > >> > > >> There was an initial surge of dismay which has mellowed
IMHO
into
"Ok, > > >> responsible people following up". > > >> > > >> I understand the sensitivity of some of the topics under
Office
> actions, > > >> having done OTRS and other various had-to-stay-private
stuff
myself
at > > >> times in the past. A high profile investigation target is
most
> unusual > > but > > >> not unheard of. > > >> > > >> I did send email to Fram earlier today asking if they had
any
public
> > >> comment, no reply as yet. > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> -george william herbert > > >> george.herbert@gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> WikiEN-l mailing list > > >> WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
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