I would like to reserve the right to say "fuck arbcom", "fuck the
WMF", or
"fuck the admins", just like I deserve the right to say "fuck the
police"
or "fuck the judiciary system".
Regardless whether you think so or not, I dont think that's within WMFs
remit to police and enforce.
On Wed, Jun 12, 2019, 10:09 Chris Keating <chriskeatingwiki(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
I think we should probably reflect on the fact
we've got to the point where
arguments along the lines of
"This guy shouldn't be blocked, he was only telling people to fuck
themselves"
are sort of normal.
This kind of behaviour wouldn't be acceptable in any other movement or
community or workplace... Why here?
(Also I think it's clear this was not the only issue... so while I have
some concerns about the "how" here, I'm struggling to disagree with the
outcome)
Chris
On Wed, 12 Jun 2019, 07:44 Yair Rand, <yyairrand(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Philippe, the email from Trust & Safety said
quite clearly that the ban
was
triggered by edit 895438118. I assume that
T&S would not lie about their
reasons for something like this.
בתאריך יום ג׳, 11 ביוני 2019 ב-22:35 מאת Philippe Beaudette <
philippe@beaudette.me>:
> Nathan writes:
>
> *“Why are WMF staffers so*
>
> *deeply, fundamentally disconnected from the communities where they
feel
the*
*right to ban people for saying "fuck arbcom"?”*
I’ve seen no evidence that this is the case here and would be utterly
shocked if a t&s staff member had indeed banned for saying that.
If the situation is anything like what it was when I was at WMF, a ban
such
> as this requires multiple levels of review by a couple of different
teams
> (in my time, we would not have considered a
ban such as this without
sign
off from
the community and legal teams, for instance). I don’t know if
the
> process is the same now but I would be surprised to hear that any
single
staff
member would feel comfortable banning on his or her authority
alone.
Multiple levels of review exist in order to
ensure that ban reasons are
valid and appropriate.
Philippe
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 6:55 PM Nathan <nawrich(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow, what a cluster. How does the WMF get themselves into these
things? I
> > have ten edits to en.wp since 2018 and even I could have 100%
predicted
> the
> > entire spectrum, and scale, of the reaction here. Why are WMF
staffers
so
> > deeply, fundamentally disconnected from the communities where they
feel
the
> right to ban people for saying "fuck arbcom"?
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:49 PM Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> > > Amir, yes, ArbCom members must sign the WMF confidentiality
agreement
for
> nonpublic information (
>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Confidentiality_agreement_for_nonpublic_inf…
> >
)
> > , as must all functionaries (checkuser, oversight, etc.). I was on
the
> > > English Wikipedia ArbCom for two years, and it was routine for us
to
> deal
> > > with sensitive, private information.
> > >
> > > Todd
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 9:46 AM Amir Sarabadani <
ladsgroup(a)gmail.com
>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > People who oppose the ban: Are you aware of all aspects and
things
Fram
> > has
> > > done? Do you have the full picture? It's really saddening to see
how
fast
> > people jump to conclusion in page mentioned in the email. I
personally,
> > > don't know what happened so I neither can support or oppose the
ban.
As
> > > simple as that.
> > >
> > > So what should be done IMO. If enwiki wants to know more, a
community
> > > body
> > > > can ask for more information, if body satisfy two things:
> > > > - They had signed NDA not to disclose the case
> > > > - They are trusted by the community
> > > >
> > > > I think the only body can sorta work with this is stewards but
not
sure
> > > (Does ArbCom NDA'ed?)
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 3:58 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > paulosperneta(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Lack of transparency from the WMF, whatelse is new.
> > > > I'm currently under a funding ban secretly decided (by who?)
based
> on a
> > > > false accusation, without providing any evidence. Until now I'm
> waiting
> > > for
> > > > an explanation from the WMF. So, this sort of attitude doesn't
> surprise
> > > me
> > > > at all.
> > > > It is very unfortunate that the WMF apparently thrives in this
kind
> > of
> > > > > medieval obscurity, the opposite of the values of the Wikimedia
> > > Movement.
> > > > > Matter for Roles & Reponsibilities.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Paulo
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Benjamin Ikuta <benjaminikuta(a)gmail.com> escreveu no dia
terça,
> > > > 11/06/2019
> > > > > à(s) 05:45:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm glad to see I'm not the only one dismayed by
the
> unilateralism
> > > and
> > > > > > lack of transparency.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Jun 10, 2019, at 8:25 PM, Techman224 <
> techman224(a)techman224.ca>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Forwarding to WIkimedia-l since WikiEN-l is relatively
dead.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since this message, an Arbcom member (SilkTork) stated
that
> they
> > > > > weren't
> > > > > > consulted, nor did this action was the result of Arbcom
> forwarding
> > a
> > > > > > concern to the office. [1]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The only non-response excuse from the WMF [2] was that
"local
> > > > > > communities
consistently struggle to uphold not just their
own
> > > > autonomous
> > > > > > rules but the Terms of Use, too.” even though there were
no
> > > complaints
> > > > > > on-wiki nor to Arbcom privately.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The on-wiki discussion is taking place at the
Bureaucrats
and
the
> > > Arbcom
> > > > noticeboards.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#User:Fra…
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats'_noticeboard#User:F…
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticebo…
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Commi…
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Commi…
> > > > >
> > > > > [2]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#Statemen…
> >
> > > >
> > > > > > Techman224
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Begin forwarded message:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> From: George Herbert <george.herbert(a)gmail.com>
> > > > > >> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Fram en.wp office yearlock block
> > > > > >> Date: June 10, 2019 at 8:54:34 PM CDT
> > > > > >> To: English Wikipedia
<wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
> > > > > >> Reply-To: English Wikipedia
<wikien-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> In case you're not following on-wiki - Office
S&T blocked
> > English
> > > > > > Wikipedia
> > > > > > >> user / administrator Fram for a year and
desysopped, for
> > > unspecified
> > > > > > >> reasons in the Office purview. There was a brief
statement
here
> > from
> > > > >> Office regarding it which gave no details other than that
normal
> > > policy
> > > > and
> > > > >> procedures for Office actions were followed, which under
normal
> > > > >> circumstances
preclude public comments.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard#User:Fra…
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Several people on Arbcom and board have commented
they're
> making
> > > > > private
> > > > > > >> inquiries under normal reporting and communication
channels,
> due
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > >> oddity and essentially uniqueness of the action.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> There was an initial surge of dismay which has
mellowed
IMHO
> > into
> > > > "Ok,
> > > > > > >> responsible people following up".
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I understand the sensitivity of some of the topics
under
> Office
> > > > > actions,
> > > > > > >> having done OTRS and other various
had-to-stay-private
stuff
> myself
> > at
> > > > >> times in the past. A high profile investigation target is
most
> > > > unusual
> > > > > but
> > > > > >> not unheard of.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I did send email to Fram earlier today asking if they
had
any
>
public
> > > > >> comment, no reply as yet.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> -george william herbert
> > > > >> george.herbert(a)gmail.com
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > > >> WikiEN-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > > > >>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > --
> > Amir (he/him)
> > _______________________________________________
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philippe(a)beaudette.me
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