What are the examples of successful citizen news websites?
What could we learn from them?
On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 5:15 PM Ziko van Dijk <zvandijk(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
One of the central problems of Wikinews is that the content is not
suitable for collaboration.
Content suitable for collaboration is related to a reality to which
the collaborators equally have access. Think if an encyclopedia based
on scholarly literature that (potentially) everybody can find in a
library.
When a journalist has spoken to her 'sources' (relevant people), she
is the one who had a special access to theses sources. The editors in
the wiki did not have this access. They can correct typos but do
little more.
Kind regards
Ziko
Am Fr., 26. Apr. 2019 um 00:43 Uhr schrieb Philippe Beaudette
<philippe(a)beaudette.me>me>:
The very smart Mr. Lih sayeth:
I have been a fan of the times Wikinews did original interviews with
notable folks [1] so this is perhaps a sustainable niche. But as a direct
news wire competitor to AP, Reuters or AFP, no.
[1]
https://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_discusses_the_future_of_Israel
Me too. In fact, I think this is something that Wikinews has always done
very well. It also strikes me as an excellent, and quite functional, use
for a Wiki. A wikivoices or wiki-interviews type project would be a fine
addition to the ecosystem, imho. And it is very reasonable to think that
given its success in this area, Wikinews could very easily pivot to fill
that spot.
But a news competitor to traditional news outlets? Nope, that it isn't.
Philippe
On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:05 PM Andrew Lih <andrew.lih(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:23 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
> jennifer.pryorsummers(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Andrew
> >
> > It seems to me that you're saying that, on the one hand, the policies
> that
> > make Wikipedia work well as an encyclopaedia (NOR, RS, V, NORUSH)
are a
> > poor fit for a news-gathering operation
and on the other hand,
Wikipedia
> is
> > a success as a news-gathering operation. These seem inconsistent to
me.
>
>
> As Wikimedians we are secondary source news summarizers rather than
primary
> source news gatherers. That’s where the
difference lies primarily.
>
> I have been a fan of the times Wikinews did original interviews with
> notable folks [1] so this is perhaps a sustainable niche. But as a
direct
> news wire competitor to AP, Reuters or AFP,
no.
>
> [1]
>
https://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_discusses_the_future_of_Israel
>
>
> > However, I conclude from what you're saying that the best way
forward is
> to
> > fold the Wikinews operation into Wikipedia. Is that right?
>
>
> Fold Wikinews altogether so it doesn’t confuse the public. Wikipedia
> editors are already doing a stellar job.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 8:15 PM Andrew Lih <andrew.lih(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 2:27 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
> > > jennifer.pryorsummers(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Wikinews may not be doing too well, but (English-language)
Wikipedia
> > > seems
> > > > to have taken up a news-gathering role not entirely consistent
with
> its
> > > > encyclopediac mission: perhaps that's the reason. Maybe the WMF
> should
> > > > sort out the demarcation issues.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Jennifer,
> > >
> > > This has been a topic of discussion for more than a decade and the
vast
> > > majority of the community has
converged on the conclusion that
Wikinews
> > > hasn't and won't ever work
at any scale given its fundamental
> properties.
> > >
> > > News is often described as "the best obtainable version of the
truth
> > given
> > > the constraints of a deadline." News depends on memorializing
direct
> > > observation at a point in time.
Therefore, the following policies
that
> > make
> > > Wikipedia work are a bad fit for original, deadline reporting:
> > >
> > > Wikipedia:NOR - no original research
> > > Wikipedia:RS - requirement for reliable sources
> > > Wikipedia:V - verifiability
> > > Wikipedia:NORUSH - there is no deadline/eventualism
> > >
> > > Most anyone who tries Wikinews first hand will experience this
mismatch
> > and
> > > realize it is a poor fit.
> > >
> > > However, rather than lament why Wikinews doesn't work, we should
> > celebrate
> > > the fact that we have found a better mode: entries that evolve
minute
> to
> > > minute (oftentimes second to second) to best reflect the world as
we
> know
> > > it. Embrace that new, live, constantly updated snapshot of reality
–
> the
> > > Wikipedia article.
> > >
> > > If you want to see some of the earlier debates about the origins of
> > > Wikinews, October 2004 is a good place to look:
> > > [1]
> > >
> >
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-October/thread.html
> > > [2]
> > >
> >
>
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-October/061017.html
> > >
> > > -Andrew
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > >
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
_______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
--
-Andrew Lih
Author of The Wikipedia Revolution
US National Archives Citizen Archivist of the Year (2016)
Knight Foundation grant recipient - Wikipedia Space (2015)
Wikimedia DC - Outreach and GLAM
Previously: professor of journalism and communications, American
University, Columbia University, USC
---
Email: andrew(a)andrewlih.com
WEB:
https://muckrack.com/fuzheado
PROJECT: Wikipedia Space:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:WPSPACE
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>